DIR from the start? Zeagle Express Tech

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How exactly is the Express Tech so innovative?

Mitch I really think this is not a productive direction. It sounds like the ET is a cool piece of kit, and I'd be happy to dive one from time to time. But the OP asked if it was DIR and it ain't.

Unfortunately, as I pointed out in Post #4, DIR questions outside the DIR forum rapidly attract non-DIR answers, DIR haters, and people who just want to fight. Whatevs.
 
It is entirely true that "DIR" doesn't hold a monopoly on such skills; they should be, and almost are univeral in the cave diving community, because your life can depend on them.
I teach these skills in my OW class as do many instructors. No need to wait until cave. Your life and comfort always rely on great skills and situational awareness.

DIR is a lot more than basic skills, though. At its heart, it is standardization and team.
For many of us: its also an attitude. No one could ever successfully label me a DIR Basher. In fact, I have done a lot to protect DIR divers from undue criticism. However, the manic standardization and the "just because" defenses used by many to justify gear selection/rejection smacks most of us as just silly. It is truly reminiscent of the blind faith exhibited by the devotees of any religious cult. In fact, we are often asked to edit/moderate comments to that effect. Its important for any person considering DIR to understand the animosity and it's history in order to make an informed decision.

No, the Zeagle is not acceptable.
Just because. We get it. It's really an either/or issue for DIR. If you really like DIR then you must NOT go with the Express Tech. If you really like the Express Tech then you must NOT go with DIR. For many, including myself, "just because" is not enough. In the absence of any compelling reason why the Express Tech is not acceptable for diving, then I'm going to pass on the attitude.
 

Pete,
  1. The OP was interested in DIR.
  2. He wanted to know if the Zeagle Express Tech was acceptable for DIR
  3. Cutting down the arguement massively, let's agree for "your principle" :D that the Express tech is a decent BC for most divers, maybe even great, as you like it so much.....
  4. the real problem is that if you show up to do the Hole in the Wall with Bill and George and I, WE won't know if there is any quirk to your bc that we don't know about....that if some kind of failure occurs, "we don't know for sure, that we will know everything we need to in order to create an instant fix, in a "SH*T HITTING THE FAN" scenario. If we don't know this, our dive plan is critically flawed, and it can not be a DIR based dive.
  5. If George and Bill and I spent a few hours going through every conceivable wrinkle of the Express Tech, decided it was a good bc, with nothing we could not fix instantly, it would still not be DIR, because you could not then go to dive with Lynn and Peter, and have them instantly know that they know everything they need to about the express tech, should an emergency of some sort occur....However, if we had done the hours of pouring over it, then we WOULD be inclined to decide that we could operate "like" a DIR buddy team, with you joining us....But again, you cant; expect to be able to sit down with every potential buddy for a few hours prior to a dive, and teach them your BC as if it was their own...hence this can not be a DIR gear choice.
  6. In DIR, we have to know the buddy's gear as our own....It works for my friends here, and when we did our DIR adventure dive last winter, divers from all over the USA showed up, all in gear we all knew intimately--all DIR gear, any thing that could happen, we all knew we would know what we needed to to fix it.
  7. The express Tech bc is not going to replace a steel or Al bp with wing, DIR style...it is just not. I can not imagine a reason to drop the well enjoyed present gear , and switch to the Zeagle. With this in mind, it will never be DIR, should not be DIR, and is not right for the OP if he wants to pursue the DIR path of skills, buddy behaviors, and diving style.
  8. For some other poster who opens up a new thread with something like : " Looking for really smart and comfortable BC I can evolve into advanced and or tech diving with"....you would have Carte Blanche to slam home this Zeagle, and I would NOT argue the issue....I would suggest the Halcyon bp/wing system, but it would no longer be enjoying the DIR requirement, so for this guy, the Zeagle may make much more sense....Especially if he is one of the people with "disdain" for DIR :)
None of us DIR's are saying you are not a good diver, or that your opinion on good gear is not very important..Your reputation preceedes you :) ..We are just trying to give detailed answers on how someone with an interest in "our" team based and common sense style of diving, would view the Zeagle.
 
It is more like, a diver shows up with gear I don't know.... I don't know, what I don't know about it.....
Even a cursory buddy check would resolve this with the Express Tech. You do buddy checks, right?

For more than a decade, any "innovation" i saw from Zeagle I considered to be junk...convulted dive industry bs....
The most important step to addressing any personal bias is admission. Many of these biases are fine. However, requiring others to share your bias without a compelling reason is anathema to me.

I really like Halcyon, and they were the real innovators of this whole direction in the late 90's.
I like Halcyon as well as Deep Sea Supply, Hollis and others. All of them have brought some great innovations and products to the sport. Unfortunately, many divers have a "Chevy vs Ford" mentality that mandates "If I don't sell it, teach it or dive it, it must be junk!"

Easy to use your approach to this, but not so easy to explain why Irvine could do 6 hours at 280 and then deco for only 12 hours...
You think his horizontal attitude explains this? Dude, the man was an incredible physical specimen at the time he did those dives. There are a lot of factors other than a horizontal trim that explains why this was possible for HIM. Clouding up these anecdotal events with pseudo-science does him and you a disservice. Me? I would never attempt those dives. I have absolutely no desire to do those dives. I am already enamored with the zen of diving and don't need any such goal.
 
Unfortunately, as I pointed out in Post #4, DIR questions outside the DIR forum rapidly attract non-DIR answers, DIR haters, and people who just want to fight. Whatevs.
We don't allow hate speech here on ScubaBoard. However, we don't equate a difference of opinion as hate either! If you feel that any post contains hate speech or is a simple troll then please, please hit the report button at the bottom left of the page! That being said, if you make false statements about gear then please expect those with experience with that gear to correct you. Sorry if that upsets you. Its the best part about our forums: BS gets corrected.
 
Mitch I really think this is not a productive direction. It sounds like the ET is a cool piece of kit, and I'd be happy to dive one from time to time. But the OP asked if it was DIR and it ain't.

Unfortunately, as I pointed out in Post #4, DIR questions outside the DIR forum rapidly attract non-DIR answers, DIR haters, and people who just want to fight. Whatevs.

Fair enough, I agree.:cheers:
 
That being said, if you make false statements about gear then please expect those with experience with that gear to correct you. Sorry if that upsets you. Its the best part about our forums: BS gets corrected.

Yet BS about DIR persists with surprising regularity.

Here are a dozen reasons why the ET is not DIR. Comments are based on watching a 16 minute assembly video and examining the product literature.

I've tried to focus on the ET, not the ET Deluxe, since that appears to be a more expensive and less minimalistic system.

-Comes with a fabric backplate and no option to replace with a metal one. For cold-water diving, this is a real issue (have to put lots of weight in integrated pockets which is awkward and leads to non-ideal weight distribution, no option for a channel weight)
-Webbing in multiple pieces
-Non-standard: team has to carry multiple spares
-Seems to require an awful lot of fiddling/pushing with a screwdriver just to get the thing assembled.
-Plastic screws to link wing to plate
-From the pictures it's hard to tell how much elasticization of the wing there is. The Deluxe ET clearly has some, but the plastic-clipped bungee running to the outer, bottom, inside corner may be a problem as well--or may not.
-I don't see a reasonable wing for small doubles on Zeagle's website ("optional bladders"). By reasonable I mean a non-bungeed, non-funny-shaped, non-dual-bladder horseshoe or donut wing.

Can be replaced at some price in time/effort:
-No crotch strap by default
-Long oral inflate hose
-Seems to come with velcro oral inflate hose retainer by default
-Plastic D-rings, triglides, and harness buckle

-And finally, if you're going to dive something 90% like a BP/W, why not just dive a BP/W?


N.B. I would be more than happy to dive with anyone diving an ET, and I think it's a perfectly reasonable gear choice. But the OP said he was headed down a DIR path, and neither of the two DIR-exclusive organizations will train you in this setup (UTD would teach Essentials in it, just like they would teach it to anyone in a back-inflate BCD--but to continue on he would have to buy a BP/W). You're doing a severe disservice here by leading him down the path of having to buy gear twice to do the diving he wants to do.
 
We don't allow hate speech here on ScubaBoard. However, we don't equate a difference of opinion as hate either! If you feel that any post contains hate speech or is a simple troll then please, please hit the report button at the bottom left of the page! That being said, if you make false statements about gear then please expect those with experience with that gear to correct you. Sorry if that upsets you. Its the best part about our forums: BS gets corrected.

He used the expression "DIR hater" as a figure of speech. I don't believe anyone really thinks there's actual hate speech taking place here.

On another note, the Zeagle does seem like it would be a pretty nice travel BC.

-Mitch
 
He used the expression "DIR hater" as a figure of speech. I don't believe anyone really thinks there's actual hate speech taking place here.
We don't allow bashers either and "DIR bashers" have been used a lot in this thread. This type of defensiveness is counter productive to the discussion and only serves to create an atmosphere of mistrust. This is especially true when there is no hint of it. I also keep people saying he has chosen his DIR path, and I just don't see that. Attraction does not infer acceptance. While it's marketing 101 to assume the sale, its incumbent on those who see things differently to point that out. Constantly inferring that we are haters, bashers or just love to argue in order to win the point is simply deceitful at best.

On another note, the Zeagle does seem like it would be a pretty nice travel BC.
One of the many things I like about this BC.
 
I have done a lot to protect DIR divers from undue criticism. However, the manic standardization and the "just because" defenses used by many to justify gear selection/rejection smacks most of us as just silly. It is truly reminiscent of the blind faith exhibited by the devotees of any religious cult. In fact, we are often asked to edit/moderate comments to that effect. Its important for any person considering DIR to understand the animosity and it's history in order to make an informed decision.
I don't mean to incite--I am pretty disinterested in this debate--but what undue criticism are you protecting DIR from? I assume those comprise the due criticism?
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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