DIR: God's gift to diving or Hell spawn?

[Lost Yooper]

What have people like Gentile, Watts, Gilliam, Boden, and Mount with all their "great accomplishments" really done for this sport? They are the best examples of what not to do, and who not to follow. Those who do often end up as bodies on wrecks like the Doria along with their infinite wisdom of deep air diving -- the seeds of which were planted by the likes of the aforementioned "leaders" in the tech community. If people want to idolize guys like this, then go ahead.

Good luck to you.

Mike

Hey! It's been quite a while since I've PO'ed someone around here -- 'bout time.

 

[Spectre]

Originally posted by rcohn
They are trying to broaden the program, which may be why he wasn't at this year's show

Since my original response, I did some digging through my scads of e-mail. It came down to cost... Bernie & Evie, or Gary. The anonymous sponsor would have taken care of Gary or Dr. Bill, and Dr. Bill was chosen.

 

[HoosierDiver]

FWIW, I bought the book and read it, and enjoyed reading it. I have to admit I didn't gather a great deal of useful information out of it, but I did like hearing his perspective on diving. My personal philosophy (and it's anti-DIR, so hit your Back button now if you don't want to read it) is to gather as much information as possible from as many people as possible and adapt it to what works for me. There were a few usefull tidbits in the book, but I think I enjoyed the sense of humor that was in it more than anything.

 

[Divesherpa]

I can't hold out on this thread.
Gary and my mentor on wrecks did a lot of diving together. This included the Doria, Monitor, Lusitannia, not to mention the popular ones. She even edited several of his books. I, like Gary Gentile, am a stroke. I don't claim to be anything different.
There are a lot of people who say DIR is the only way. This is great. There are a lot of people who post on technical and cave diving threads. This is great. If you can't do something, knock those who do.
Gentile writes great books. He is a very accomplished diver. He has a knack for doing research and finding the details that make the pieces fit together.
He is not an internet junky who posts about what others are doing, he does what people talk about doing. Lots of people think that they can do the dives and tell the stories as good as the people who are doing them. My question is why aren't they (myself included) doing it instead of talking about it?
I've gotten caught up into cave diving for a little while and have been abusing the ocean by not spending enough time in the depths looking for clues into origins of vessels. Something I need to remedy.

As to what Mount has brought to diving, the list is longer than the list of anyone else that I can think of. Irvine is an example of something that Mount brought to diving.

Have any of you guys talked to the people who trained Irvine? Deep deep air, skin bends most of the time. I don't want to open that can of worms, but it makes for good talk around a post push campfire.

jdr

 

[Spectre]

Originally posted by Lost Yooper
If people want to idolize guys like this, then go ahead.

There's a Big difference between respect and idolization. Idolizing breeds blind faith, whereas respect breeds learning from ones accomplishments... as well as leaving an opening to learn from ones mistakes.

What have people like Gentile, Watts, Gilliam, Boden, and Mount with all their "great accomplishments" really done for this sport?

How about I pick someone else. In fact, let me pick a pair that got themselves killed diving deep on air (something that BTW I do think is stupid). Let's look at the Rouses. However, lets look at one thing they did accomplish. They brought Sheck Exley's cave diving concepts to wreck diving. Sure, one of the primary reasons behind their deaths were due to diving deep on air, but that doesn't discount everything they did.

Hey! It's been quite a while since I've PO'ed someone around here -- 'bout time.

Happy to oblige.

 

[Jonathan]

Thanks for bringing that one to my attention - just ordered off Amazon together with a book on mixed gas diving. Now I just have to wait a month or so.

I thought only fair after buying the Fundamentals book the other week to see what various people were preaching about....

Jonathan

 

[Divesherpa]

The Rouses didn't bring cave techniques. The swing was already in play. Funny enough, my mentor was on the boat when the Rouses died also.
She had been using cave techniques for a few years at this point.
Several others had as well.

 

[Spectre]

Originally posted by Divesherpa
The Rouses didn't bring cave techniques. The swing was already in play. Funny enough, my mentor was on the boat when the Rouses died also.

Correction accepted. However it doesn't change my point...

 

[Lost Yooper]

I don't discount everything these guy have brought to diving. What I do have a problem with is their on going attitude that puts a lot people at unnecessary risk. They still beleive they can teach people to handle deep air reliably. I don't have a problem with their record breaking deep air dives, or their continuation to dive deep air. I don't care if anyone dives deep air, but don't tell people that narcosis and oxygen toxicity can be handled reliably. That is a lie. I will never respect them or those agencies for that reason alone.

Mike

 

[WreckWriter]

I met Gary back in 92 or 93 when I first started researching wrecks for my "Histories & Mysteries" book. At the time I was a novice researcher and was basically trying to pick my way through the process using bits and pieces I had picked up along the way.

Gary was one of several established wreck writers (another was Ellsworth Boyd who was also extremely helpful) who I contacted and asked for advice. He helped me tremendously, not only with advice and encouragement but even a bit of actual research. We corresponded quite a few times and when he was in town he stopped by the house and we shot the **** for awhile. Extremely knowledgable and very unassuming (i.e. not arrogant). All in all a damn nice guy.

These guys taught me, among other things, the primary lesson in wreck writing, never believe anything without documentation. Many, even most, wreck writers accept what they're told as fact and end up writing fiction instead of history.

Anyway, as to the diving practices....

When reading Gary's wreck diving guides one should keep in mind the standard practices of the time when they were written. "Advanced Wreck Diving Guide" was published in 1988. Guess what we were ALL diving then? Air. "Ultimate Wreck Diving Guide" was published in 1992. Guess what? Very very few were diving mix then. IANTD was still IAND. Billy Deans in Key West was experimenting with trimix but it certainly wasn't commonly available, nor was the training. Mostly we were all still doing deep air although alternative deco gasses had come into fairly common usage. We were using them in the Keys, Gary and his bunch were using them in Jersey.

In 1998 "Technical Diving Handbook" was published. It was essentially a rewrite of "Ultimate Wreck Diving Guide" with the addition of...... MIX. The way I read the book, the virtues of mix were highly touted over deep air. Also discussed in a positive manner were the best technigues of penetration available at the time, DPVs, liftbag deco techniques and other things that we still use today. The buzz word then, as it is now, was redundancy.

Sorry but I don't see the terrible things that some of you seem to see. Sure, air diving is discussed, lots of folks still did it then. Matter of fact, lots of folks do it now. It's not touted as the be-all-end-all, just as a fact of diving life, which it still is for many people.

I think of Gary as one of the pioneers of deep wreck diving. I also think of him as a friend. I think he's still one of the best and most experienced wreck divers in the game. There are some guys building excellent reputations and doing extremely exciting dives like J.T. Barker in Virgina and the AUE guys in Florida but I think Gary still sits in one of the top spots.

Do I advocate deep air? No. Do I do it? Maybe.

Tom