Dive Computer Failure -- Ending the Dive

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I am very untrusting of electronic technology, testing it is what I do for a living. It isn't pretty.

Yeah but trying to keep the count "one thousand one, one thousand two" throughout the dive is really hard.

Not trusting electronics is a pretty silly reason to not use a computer. Even analog display watches use electonics to keep their timing.
 
Yeah but trying to keep the count "one thousand one, one thousand two" throughout the dive is really hard.

Not trusting electronics is a pretty silly reason to not use a computer. Even analog display watches use electonics to keep their timing.

I posted that I execute the dive with a PDC. Didn't post I don't use a PDC just that I don't trust them. Hence the watch , depth gauge and air tables for back up. Hope your reading comprehension improves!

---------- Post added July 13th, 2014 at 06:36 AM ----------

He's saying if your computer fails you cannot know how close you were to the NDL. If you only have two points of data (duration and max depth), you cannot reliably estimate your current nitrogen loading. This has nothing to do with proprietary navy tables, etc.

Proprietary navy tables? We paid for that information! I got mine on Ebay.

Example from the Navy dive table: 70FSW for 60 min dive requires an 8 min stop at 10fsw. This is nothing more than an extended safety stop, which is all deco is in practice, a series of extended safety stops, that are required to surface safely.

Long ago when I got certified the Navy air tables were the tables we trained on because it was all there was to use. PADI, NAUI etc. hadn't developed their own yet.
 
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I posted that I execute the dive with a PDC. Didn't post I don't use a PDC just that I don't trust them. Hence the watch , depth gauge and air tables for back up. Hope your reading comprehension improves!

[sarcastic response on]
Yeah but, backing up one device with three (that all must not fail/get lost or the other two are pointless plus one of which is also still electronic), is not helping things.

To return the jibe, I hope your reasoning process improves!
[/sarcasm off]

Because seriously, backing a dive computer with anything but a different dive computer runs into lots of problems, and does not function as much of a backup in the real world.

The most obvious is that people who dive with computers generally come to take full advantage of the multilevel aspect they provide, making a timer and depth gauge not work with tables. Very few people on typical vacation tourist dives know their dive ahead of time, and with good reason. Why not see what is interesting to see? What if the sting ray is ten feet deeper than the plan? With a table the only answer is to miss the close up view of the ray or the turtle etc. But technology has made that unecessary. Dive on a computer and the dive becomes more free form and more fun.

On top of that, it is a flaw to increase the failure points of the backup to three separate devices that all must work for anyone to be of use. It does not make for more security. I have seen more watches get lots than any other piece of gear because they have tiny pins holding the strap, and less hardy O-rings. Once someone moves into a proper dive rated watch, then they are getting into the amount of money that can easily buy a far more useful backup dive computer. Example: I have completely lost way more than twenty watches working as a guide, and I have blown out twice that many band pins. (I have only lost one dive computer.) This does not count watches flooding, because I long ago learned to treat watches as disposable because it there is no way to count on a watch after a battery change. And then add the fact that almost all dive computers are recoverable even after a battery compartment flood, and watches aren't, and well, dive watches just start to make less and less sense compared to computers.

....

Look, in the end, people should and will do what they want with their money, and vacation time. I am not telling anyone what they should do, rather I am pointing out that the reasoning that says someone should back up a computer with anything but another computer is faulty. And then, on top of that, giving some real world examples that help point out flaws with diving with tables, dive watches and depth gauges that are independent of the flaws of strict reasoning that makes them thewatch depth gauge and tables a bad idea.

People who spend thousands to travel to dive, and yet do not carry computers, backed up with backup computers are missing out on a lot of fun, usually because they have not thought it all the way through, or because they want to be 'old school'. Which is fine, just not well reasoned out, especially when someone thinks they are backing up a computer with a table.
 
Example from the Navy dive table: 70FSW for 60 min dive requires an 8 min stop at 10fsw. This is nothing more than an extended safety stop, which is all deco is in practice, a series of extended safety stops, that are required to surface safely.
Safety stops are optional, deco stops are not. You can surface safely without doing the safety stop.
 
What the OP needs is one of these



I used to plan most of my Saudi shore dives on a profile of;

20M for 20 mins
16M for 20 mins
then 10M until I reached 50 bar then start ascent

I bought my first computer (Suunto Companion) as a back up and continued to use the wheel until around 1997.

After many years of using tables / wheel I know roughly what most of my NDLs will be before I dive.

If only they had brought out a Nitrox wheel :hm:
 
I still cannot believe they replaced the Wheel with a device that could not get wet, and thus is next to impossible to use on a boat.

The Wheel was absolutely necessary when we had to teach classes (particular the Deep dive on AOW) on the RDP.
 
Yeah but trying to keep the count "one thousand one, one thousand two" throughout the dive is really hard.

Your sarcasm font noted, however on a technical dive course I was taught as a *contingency tool* to do that on staged ascents and it is surprisingly easy. Before the dive I was instructed to find out how many breaths I took in one minute. Then at the beginning of the ascent I shot a DSMB with knots tied every ten feet. Then I turned my bottom timer over so I could not read it, and began my ascent counting my breath cycles and moving up to the appropriate stop at the appropriate time. My instructor monitored my timing at at the end of the exercise I had followed the 6 timed stops from 70 ft to the surface accurately. This, I repeat, is a contingency tool to be used if all instruments fail, in conjunction with a DSMB with ten foot (or three meter) knots tied in the line.
It is surprisingly easy and accurate method for an ascent.
 
I still cannot believe they replaced the Wheel with a device that could not get wet, and thus is next to impossible to use on a boat.

The Wheel was absolutely necessary when we had to teach classes (particular the Deep dive on AOW) on the RDP.
I've only ever heard of the wheel, and it was a reference made to it by a non-PADI instructor as the "PADI wheel of death" :D
 

[sarcastic response on]
Yeah but, backing up one device with three (that all must not fail/get lost or the other two are pointless plus one of which is also still electronic), is not helping things.

To return the jibe, I hope your reasoning process improves!
[/sarcasm off]

Because seriously, backing a dive computer with anything but a different dive computer runs into lots of problems, and does not function as much of a backup in the real world.

For some this maybe be true but, having been diving 44 years and only 5 of those with a PDC it works quite well for me.

---------- Post added July 13th, 2014 at 10:40 AM ----------

Safety stops are optional, deco stops are not. You can surface safely without doing the safety stop.

quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by AfterDark
Example from the Navy dive table: 70FSW for 60 min dive requires an 8 min stop at 10fsw. This is nothing more than an extended safety stop, which is all deco is in practice, a series of extended safety stops, that are required to surface safely.

Does the word required mean anything to you? Or is that just something you skip over?
 
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by AfterDark
Example from the Navy dive table: 70FSW for 60 min dive requires an 8 min stop at 10fsw. This is nothing more than an extended safety stop, which is all deco is in practice, a series of extended safety stops, that are required to surface safely.

Does the required mean anything to you? Or is that just something you skip over?
How is it "nothing more than an extended safety stop" if it's a required stop?
 

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