Dive industry BS

[Knavey]

How many other small business industries are out there that require the same BS that the LDS has to go through from the manufacturers?

I would be curious to know if anyone knows of any.

 

[Lead_carrier]

RichLockyer once bubbled...

DUI requires that you stock something like 5 "demo" suits.
Not rentals... but wallflowers... not for sale.

I don't know what type of DUI program that is. We have been a DUI dealer for a few years and don't have any rental or demo suits. We still sell 2 or 3 per year tho. Maybe that is enough to keep them happy.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Lead_carrier once bubbled...


I don't know what type of DUI program that is. We have been a DUI dealer for a few years and don't have any rental or demo suits. We still sell 2 or 3 per year tho. Maybe that is enough to keep them happy.

I get the impression that the reps have some latitude in these things. I had the DUI rep (I forget his name but he's the one who is also a GUE instructor) and another person from DUI in our store talking about a dealership last summer. We were told in very certain terms that we needed to buy six renal suits up front before we could order everything else. I had several folks who wanted DUI suits but I couldn't afford the six rentals so I lost all the sales. Again...Thank you mister A...hole manufacturer!

I couldn't figure out what in the Sam Hill I would do with six rental suits but DUI is convinced that rental suits sell dry suits so they insist on you doing it. Try running a business when some one else insists on doing your financial and inventory planning for you.

 

[5615mike]

We have had 2 of the 4 LDS shut their doors in the last 7 months. Bad deal for everyone but when you can buy gear on-line for 50% of what they will "discount" it to you for then there is a real problem. Obvisously LDS's can't survive with the service and training alone. Mike, sorry to hear you are closing your doors.

 

[Genesis]

Obvisously LDS's can't survive with the service and training alone.

Sure they can.

If I could get commercial insurance I would rebuild regs for roughly the same prices that the shops charge, and make money doing it.

Not a lot, but money nonetheless. It would be a profitable business, if not a terribly-lucurative one.

Fills would be a bit more expensive, but I could provide fills off my personally-owned compressor for comparable prices to that charged locally, and Nitrox for a bit less than that charged locally, particularly if I banked both air and 40% (to mix anything from 21-40% on demand)

Now training is another matter to some degree. But even there, with the cost of an OW cert hanging around $200 (after taking out the "givebacks" and such, and adding in the cost of materials) in this area, that's $1200 for six students - the usual maximum for a class.

That's about $30/hour, assuming 40 hours of instructional time.

While not a princely sum, its also not chicken-feed.

Now yes, the current structure is different for the instructor, since most of the course fees end up being "eaten" by the shop. But assuming independant instructors, its a fair living wage all the way around.

The LDS as a "gear pusher" at 100%+ markups is not the only way to make a living at this game. Independant instruction can be reasonably profitable - $30/hour isn't bad money by anyone's standard, and neither is $40-60/hour for overhauls.

 

[Diversauras]

Genesis once bubbled...


Sure they can.

If I could get commercial insurance I would rebuild regs for roughly the same prices that the shops charge, and make money doing it.

Not a lot, but money nonetheless. It would be a profitable business, if not a terribly-lucurative one.

Fills would be a bit more expensive, but I could provide fills off my personally-owned compressor for comparable prices to that charged locally, and Nitrox for a bit less than that charged locally, particularly if I banked both air and 40% (to mix anything from 21-40% on demand)

Now training is another matter to some degree. But even there, with the cost of an OW cert hanging around $200 (after taking out the "givebacks" and such, and adding in the cost of materials) in this area, that's $1200 for six students - the usual maximum for a class.

That's about $30/hour, assuming 40 hours of instructional time.

While not a princely sum, its also not chicken-feed.

Now yes, the current structure is different for the instructor, since most of the course fees end up being "eaten" by the shop. But assuming independant instructors, its a fair living wage all the way around.

The LDS as a "gear pusher" at 100%+ markups is not the only way to make a living at this game. Independant instruction can be reasonably profitable - $30/hour isn't bad money by anyone's standard, and neither is $40-60/hour for overhauls.

Mike couldn't make it. The reasons are myriad. You keep telling everyone what they can and can't do or what they should and shouldn't do, what changes should be affected in the dive industry and why they should be made, but you don't actually do anything.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Well, I've been going over the issue about rebuilding regs without dive shop insurance with an lawyer that specializes in such things. Corp veils probably aren't enough since assets of the corp would be very limited and might be judged insufficient.

BTW, the dive shop insurance will run about three grand a year so I need to rebuild a bunch of regs.

As an independant without a shop and the overhead I'll make some some profit teaching. Before all it did was help pay the rent and other overhead.

In reality, with the student demand I have the only thing that's really changing is that the store (in a retail setting) is going away. We'll still teach and it liks like there are a few suppliers that'll still do business with us.

My guess is that without the overhead of a store, which does nothing but put me in a situation where I need to play ball with the manufacturers, well be a very attractive alternative to the dive shops in every way without all the BS. This is BTW the exact thing that the manufacturer and maybe even some shops have tried to avoid all these years.

 

[Genesis]

that lawyer ought to be a bit brighter....

There are ways to make yourself judgment-proof without actually giving all your money and assets to charity - and when combined with a corporate veil, it works quite well.

Many people who are in high-risk professions do this as a routine matter of course, as a means of avoiding the nightmare of their personal lives being ruined as a consequence of an honest mistake. Trusts and careful titling of assets, when used judiciously and BEFORE you undertake the conduct that can get you sued, can provide near-perfect protection.

Now you get sued, and lose, but so what? You have next-to-nothing personally, you declare bankruptcy, and its over. The person coming after you gets nothing for their trouble - and they get their own lawyer bill besides, as you don't have the assets to pay even that. Yeah, you can only do it once every 7 years. So the second (and third, etc) judgement sits out there unsatisfied for 7 years, then you dispose of that one too.

Its not that difficult to make yourself essentially immune to the lawsuit lottery - in fact, its probably cheaper than the insurance premiums over a couple of years if you're involved in a business venture where the actual risk of a real lawsuit is significant.

And it totally screws the tort bar when they try to come after you. Find a good estate attorney to explain this to 'ya - its completely legal if done correctly.

As an independant without a shop and the overhead I'll make some some profit teaching. Before all it did was help pay the rent and other overhead.

In reality, with the student demand I have the only thing that's really changing is that the store (in a retail setting) is going away. We'll still teach and it liks like there are a few suppliers that'll still do business with us.

My guess is that without the overhead of a store, which does nothing but put me in a situation where I need to play ball with the manufacturers, well be a very attractive alternative to the dive shops in every way without all the BS. This is BTW the exact thing that the manufacturer and maybe even some shops have tried to avoid all these years.

Yep.

It can be done, and without "playing by the manufacturer's rules."

Would 'ya like some stickers Mike? Just tell me how many you'd like and where you'd like 'em sent

 

[MikeFerrara]

Genesis once bubbled...


Would 'ya like some stickers Mike? Just tell me how many you'd like and where you'd like 'em sent

I'll get in touch off line.