Dive Master knowledge

[Conor]

I think the difference is required knowledge. In Padi you could be a MSD through being a fishspotter, dpv driver, tea-bag diver, photographer and videographer, and although these specialties would have made you better at each of these things they may not have improved your general diving skills, e.g. Navigation, ability to dive deep safely, ability to know how to use lifting equipment or enter wrecks safely or perform more complex rescues.

If I understand correctly the NAUI/BSAC levels suggested above have more core components that you can't opt out of that improve your dive theory and skills thus making you a better alround diver.

Having said that if you pick the right specialties and instructor you may reach an equivalent level of skills, i.e. Nav, deep, eanx, S&R, night etc all add do your knowledge, confidence, theory and skills in a more general way.

Does this make sense ?

 

[Diver0001]

Conor once bubbled...
I think the difference is required knowledge. In Padi you could be a MSD through being a fishspotter, dpv driver, tea-bag diver, photographer and videographer, and although these specialties would have made you better at each of these things they may not have improved your general diving skills, e.g. Navigation, ability to dive deep safely, ability to know how to use lifting equipment or enter wrecks safely or perform more complex rescues.

If I understand correctly the NAUI/BSAC levels suggested above have more core components that you can't opt out of that improve your dive theory and skills thus making you a better alround diver.

Having said that if you pick the right specialties and instructor you may reach an equivalent level of skills, i.e. Nav, deep, eanx, S&R, night etc all add do your knowledge, confidence, theory and skills in a more general way.

Does this make sense ?

This is true to a point but even if you take non-diving specialties the experience criterium of 50 dives still stands. You can't get around that.

It's also true that someone can become a PADI master diver without having ever taken a course in navigation (Aside from what you need for AOW). PADI does, however offer something like 25 specialties and there are things in there for everyone. Obviously divers with "diver's blood" will be interested in different specialties than divers with "tourist blood". You can't get around that either (in the current system).

There are probably PADI master scuba divers out there who can't navigate their way out of a bathtub. You could say that these people are not skillful divers if navigation is really important to you (it certainly is to me) but maybe they are perfectly happy just following around behind a DM with their camera and maybe they have perfect buoyancy skills because they need it for being a good photographer and maybe they are the perfect buddy for someone like you or me (with our perfect navigation skills ) because they can tell us what it was we were looking at. Maybe they don't think much of our diving either because all we can do is go from A to B but we don't care about looking around......

My point is every person will develop along their own lines of interest and as long as they are learning to be safe conscientious and entousiastic I don't really see the problem.

R..

 

[sealkie]

Very good read

You may also consider reading any of the following

The NOAA diving manual

http://www.ntis.gov/products/bestsellers/noaadive.asp?loc=4-2-0


The Technical Diving Handbook - Gary Gentile


Diving Physiology in plain English

The DIR configuration book is also interesting - as is the GUE basic cave diving book

You don`t have to partake in any of the activities - but expanding your knowledge and being able to apply it to your own diving is something you should try and achieve

 

[JDostal]

Big-t-2538 once bubbled...
the NAUI and PADI "Master Diver" courses are very different. As I understand it PADI's class is more of a "how many cardds do you have" now lets get a few dives in...and done.

What class?!

You fill out a form stating what specialties you have. Show your instructor your logbook showing you have the right number of dives. Show your OW, AOW and Rescue cards. Show your $30.

Wam - a new Master Scuba Diver.

It has NOTHING to do with acquiring knowledge.

 

[Diversauras]

Conor once bubbled...
.....

I have looked at joining BSAC, but haven't heard back from the local club since I asked about transferring. They seemed to want me to transfer fully to BSAC, take out BSAC and club membership (insurance and all) at a cost of more than £100 without being able to know much about the club at all. Having said that I get the impression that their Dive Leader course would be pretty much what I am looking for.

But also I just want a way of improving my general diving knowledge outside of training courses and for this getting the texts might be an idea.

Conor,

I went to meetings at the club I joined for a month or so before they really started pushing me to join. I was already an AOW before I joined and they took me right in and let me start diving with the group at the appropriate level. Eventually I got all their requirements signed off and even as a diver with some experience (maybe 500 dives then) I feel I really learned a lot.

 

[Conor]

Diver0001

You are right, when I talk about general dive skills I am using my own definition, for a photographer for example those skills may not be as important to that person.

I guess to me the idea of Master scuba diver suggests someone has a mastery of scuba diving in the general sense rather than a mastery of specific activities within scuba, but I guess either interpretation is valid.

I suppose I was speaking from my own point of view of what I want to achieve and what I would like my cards to say about me as a diver, from that point of view I don't see MSD as an advancement or indication of my skills beyond the 5 cards I would have next to it. I could just carefully choose those 5 and stop there, but with the PADI system there is the chance that some desired skills may fall in the cracks between the courses.

Sealkie

Thanks for the titles

Conor

 

[Conor]

Diversaurus, my local group have said that I would need to convert to BSAC before I could go dive with them. This is what concerns me, I can't say at this point whether I will actually like to continue diving in the UK, so I don't really want to cough up that much cash on the off chance. I am a RD at the mo and would have to go through lectures in the BSAC way and possibly some other hurdles whereas I could just go to the coast and dive.

 

[Big-t-2538]

For reasons stated above, I obvioulsy know diddly poo about the PADI system...

But at any rate, Conor if you are looking for some good books to read, the GUE fundamentals book, and I think the NAUI Master diver book are both very good "diving" books (and are the only two I've actually looked through for anything)

If you want to learn more about diving, the best thing to do is DIVE....the DM books are really a bunch of policys, procedures, red tape BS that I'll probably only need to know when the poop is slung through the fan....

 

[Conor]

Some of that stuff is good to know too, poop does get flung

 

[Diver0001]

Conor once bubbled...
Diver0001

You are right, when I talk about general dive skills I am using my own definition, for a photographer for example those skills may not be as important to that person.

I guess to me the idea of Master scuba diver suggests someone has a mastery of scuba diving in the general sense rather than a mastery of specific activities within scuba, but I guess either interpretation is valid.

I suppose I was speaking from my own point of view of what I want to achieve and what I would like my cards to say about me as a diver, from that point of view I don't see MSD as an advancement or indication of my skills beyond the 5 cards I would have next to it. I could just carefully choose those 5 and stop there, but with the PADI system there is the chance that some desired skills may fall in the cracks between the courses.

Sealkie

Thanks for the titles

Conor

You're right about that. I never had MSD. I wanted the knowledge but I don't gives a rat's-patoot about the cards. I've also been diving in a "tea-bag" since the late 80's but I still don't have the drysuit card..... Maybe this is a good example of a skill falling through the cracks. When I bought my first drysuit PADI didn't ahve a specialty for it. I got a more experienced diver to show me how to use it, I made a couple of shallow dives with it before I got it under control and built up skill with it. It probably took me 10 dives to really get it nailed but then again they were 10 interesting dives.

Today I think the PADI system has most of what you might want to have on water skills. The tempo is really high and you have to commit to practicing skills on your own to master them but there isn't much missing from the system. What is a point of concern, of course, is that because the tempo is so high some people don't learn the skill well in classes and end up perfecting bad habits. The constant moaning I hear about buoyancy control is a reflection of this. The BSAC club system forms a nice catch-net for this phenomenon. It's not just a collection of divers but a collection of buddies (in theory) who all want to help you improve as a diver (as opposed to an under-water tourist). You pay monthly for a BSAC club but your training costs you nothing if I'm not mistaken. What might become frustrating about teh BSAC is (and I speak from limited exposure) that clubs can become hierarchical (quirk of British culture I suppose) and your progress can be stunted by people not showing you things until *they* think you're ready for it..... Also the grading system doesn't appeal to me personally. It does probably say more about a diver's skill level than a PADI card but who cares. Under water the number of stars on your card doesn't dictate how much fun you have.

R..