Dive Op Self Defense

[Meng_Tze]

If you are in the tropics wearing a shorty and ask for 20lbs. there may be a problem...

I was on a boat last year in the keys. 5mm full suit, double AL80's.... wore 6# of weight on my belt. The DM's were worried about the amount (lack thereof) I was carrying. Little did they know I had a weighted SS plate..... what does that tell you?

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

I don't think it is experience that is the differentiator here............more like confidence. Over confidence can also give you a nice weight number.....

To me the weight question is relatively silly.

Yeah... I would say, if nothing else, it would be inconclusive, unless you had someone brand new, who was either way over-weighted, or just shrugged and said, "I don't know how much weight I need!" :11:

 

[Jim Lapenta]

The weighting thing is a big thing with me also. If I ask now much weight you're using then my next question is why? If you tell me that after two years and 100 dives that that is what it takes ok. If you tell me that that's what your instructor told you you needed then we are going to have a little more discussion. Figuring out how much weight you need is basic. If you can't do it that tells me you are
1 new
2 not much experience
3 lacking in the training dept
4 not willing to work on basic skills
5 lazy.
In any of those cases I would want to do a weight check and a check out dive before taking you out on any kind of dive with any level of difficulty. When I went on my first set of ocean dives I had not dove with an al tank in a long time. All of mine are steel. I borrowed an al 80 from the shop that was down to 1000psi. Took it in the pool with my 5 mil which was what I would be using and took it down to 400 psi. I then spent a few minutes adding weight til I got where I wanted to be. This was what I started with plus 8lbs for salt water. It worked for my first ocean dives on the spiegel grove but was a tad heavy. I knew this going in. But better to be safe than sorry. By the fourth dive of that trip I had knocked that 8 down to 4 and that is where I stayed and it was spot on. Next week I'm heading to Key Largo and according to the water temps it sounds like I'll only need my polar tech. I'll also be diving BPW for the first time in saltwater. The steel plate will cancel out the tank, the polar has no inherent buoyancy, so to start with I'll put 6 on the belt and subtract as necessary. I'm guessing I'll shed most if not all of that by the third or fourth dive. I also keep a log and one of the main things in there since I dive so many different suits and in different environments is how much weight was needed at what time with what suit. Really speeds things up. And if you first try to put your reg on backwards that is a clue for me you need looking after. If you won't set up your own gear then unless I'm getting paid for it you're not diving with me.

 

[Scubakevdm]

I was on a boat last year in the keys. 5mm full suit, double AL80's.... wore 6# of weight on my belt. The DM's were worried about the amount (lack thereof) I was carrying. Little did they know I had a weighted SS plate..... what does that tell you?

It tells me that they didn't understand what they were looking at, and maybe they didn't care about your diving, as long as you sank and got out of their hair. If you were diving a weighted BP and double al80's I would estimate that you are in the ballpark. Anyway, the flags don't pop for underweighted divers, it's the ones with more weight that merit a closer look.

 

[h90]

short time ago in Thailand I had a buddy 165 cm tall, shorty, single tank and 10kg weights.
He was 45 degree when swimming and the BCD half full. I told him he should try with less weight, as I also started with 8 kg and now I use 4. But he told me he need 10 kg to go down......

Of course he bounced 2 meter up and down and his air was down to 25 bar after 30 min....
The worst I ever saw, but a nice and funny guy....
And he was happy with his performance.

I was on a boat last year in the keys. 5mm full suit, double AL80's.... wore 6# of weight on my belt. The DM's were worried about the amount (lack thereof) I was carrying. Little did they know I had a weighted SS plate..... what does that tell you?

 

[redacted]

I think that it works the other way around, and that the first requirement is that the diver be certified to the level required to do the dive, and trhen additionally dive ops want to see that they have some recent proficiency with similar dives, and that there are no red flags popping up in the "this guy is competent" department.

I think it works both ways. I think the dive op is better off providing a clear description of the conditions the diver must be prepared to handle and then (beyond normal cert requirements) let the diver be responsible for his decision to undertake the dives. When the dive op implemnents a list of augenting qualification and the diver meets those qualifications, then the op may be perceived as saying that diver is qualified and ready and thereby relieving the diver of making that assertion.

I'm not saying don't augment. But augment with good rational (including locally normal safety protocols). And still give the diver the information he/she needs to make a responsible decision. Then let the knowledgable diver execute appropriate waivers that put the responsibility on the diver's shoulders rather than the dive op's.

 

[Meng_Tze]

..Anyway, the flags don't pop for underweighted divers, it's the ones with more weight that merit a closer look.

And herein lies the problem

 

[DandyDon]

diver 85 - I think it's a pic in your Sig blowing thread widths out. Max width for message board pics needs to be 640.

If you are in the tropics wearing a shorty and ask for 20lbs. there may be a problem...

I guess I could be that problem, as I'd start there in a 3 mil long anyway - don't dive shorties.

But then, never claimed to be a good diver - still working on that.

 

[Scubakevdm]

I think it works both ways. I think the dive op is better off providing a clear description of the conditions the diver must be prepared to handle and then (beyond normal cert requirements) let the diver be responsible for his decision to undertake the dives. When the dive op implemnents a list of augenting qualification and the diver meets those qualifications, then the op may be perceived as saying that diver is qualified and ready and thereby relieving the diver of making that assertion.

I'm not saying don't augment. But augment with good rational (including locally normal safety protocols). And still give the diver the information he/she needs to make a responsible decision. Then let the knowledgable diver execute appropriate waivers that put the responsibility on the diver's shoulders rather than the dive op's.

That's a great point, and I agree with that. The "augmentation" process as it happens with me is not some published set of rules, its a case by case assesment of each diver, and is conducted mostly in my mind. If there is enough "evidence" it leads to a few subtle and private questions and most likely some in water attention by me or some other in water personnel. It's all about knowing (or educated guessing) about who's going to need you the most down there.

 

[Scubakevdm]

And herein lies the problem

I don't get it, I'm sorry. Could you explain what you mean by that?