#$%#$%@# Dive Training!

[sealkie]

Newly certified divers need to take it SLOW - As an O/W certified diver your girlfriend is certified to five to 60 ft not 70ft - narcosis slowing reactions and increased bouyancy control is one of those reasons.

Her o/w class probabrly took her to 57 ft gradually while giving her time to adjust her bouyancy - after a dive or 2 at shallower depth

Is is possible you took her deeper faster than her classes and she didn`t have time to work on control - for new divers this requires more thought and work than experienced diver - perhaps you should let her set the pace ?

Just a thought

 

[Genesis]

Her first two cert dives were at the Jetties, with average depths of 20' or so.

The last two were both at 57' - straight down to the bottom and around the wreck there. I know the drill with this particular shop and where they took her. I dove with her daughter during HER cert classes a few weeks prior, and their profiles matched exactly my original training there - in you go, down you go, here are the nice fishies and the nice wreck (don't go inside!)

There, the bottom is sand. Contact is not a big deal, as there is no silt to stir up. Where we dove yesterday there WAS silt to stir up, and stir she did.

10' deeper is not much; in fact we only touched 70' for a couple of minutes, and arguing "narcosis" is silly. Second, the MOST DIFFICULT place to practice buoyancy control is in the top 30' of the water! As you go deeper most of your suit compression has already happened; if you can't control yourself at 70' you damn sure won't be able to at 15' where it counts when you are coming back up!

The issue was not narcosis, it was simply no attention paid to buoyancy control in the class. Talking after the dive, it was clear that while she understood the concept she had spent ZERO time in OW actually being required to demonstrate it at depth, and zero effort was expended from her instructor on it with his students during the class.

I recognize that some folks think that OW certs are only good to 60', but that's horsefeathers if you're TRAINED at the limit of that depth, and are intending to dive here on the gulf coast, where virtually ALL dives are in the 70-100' range.

Second, the conditions were FAR more favorable yesterday than those of her class. During the class vis was rotten; it was insanely good yesterday. The best I've seen all year here, in fact. Water was warm, etc. Simply no contest - the overall difficulty was lower than that of her original cert.

There is nothing particularly difficult about the dive we did, nor is it beyond a basic OW cert'd diver's capability - provided you have reasonable buoyancy control. I was her buddy, specifically to insure that she did not get in trouble. She didn't - but the skills issue with buoyancy is one that I did not expect.

The dive shop she certified with would have ler her on their boat, with profiles in the 80' range, the day after her class - without a DM, and with another newly-certified student as her "buddy".

Had she done that there could have easily been a serious problem.

We will work on the buoyancy issue - other than that her skills are fine, and her gas consumption reasonable given her lack of experience. It just pizzes me off that after all this time (I actually suggested she delay her final cert dives to get more comfortable with mask skills, as she originally had quite a bit of trouble with them, for safety reasons) this aspect of diving - one of the most important, right behind that of being able to take your mask off and put it back on without choking to death - was simply ignored during the classes.

 

[SueMermaid]

James Goddard once bubbled...


Yes he should. I'm sorry if this isn't pleasant to hear but this is one of my pet peeves. You will never convince me that someone who cannot dive without damaging reefs should be allowed to continue.

James

I agree. I had a guy in my dive group (that has since disbanded) that had logged more than 200 dives and was forever hitting stuff with his fins and stirring up the bottom. He is a DiveMoron.
He knew buoyancy skills, but he didn't think to use them properly. He was totally unaware of his environment. He got a lecture after every single dive from somebody on the boat, often from the DM or captain, yet still did not change his behavior. Some people are just like that. I had my last-straw experience with him and told him in front of the captain of the boat that I refused to dive with him anymore.
Funny, he is the same way on skis--he doesn't look where he is going, cuts people off, and often creates crashes without knowing it.

 

[equalize]

With any newly learned skill, it takes time to master in an actual
experience. Being newly certified myself, I know practice, practice
and more practice is the only way to get comfortable, relaxed and
use these newly learned skills.

Over the weekend I got in 4 dives (#7, #8, #9 & #10). On the 10th, I finally found neutral bouancy. This way a big accomplishment for me, but now I have a new challenge.

My 5th through 10th dives were all in cold, fresh water, no current, wearing 7 mil wetsuit and 24lbs of weight. My next dives will be in Mexico, wearing a 3 mil hyperstretch. I haven't the slightest idea, what the difference in weight to keep neutral bouyancy should be.

Any suggestions?

 

[scubasean]

Genesis once bubbled...




I set myself a high standard when I learned to dive. Unfortunately, it appears that the standard has to come from within, not from the agency or the instructor - you'll get your card with or without. Grrrr....

But I think this has to be the way, in most or all learning situations....And I don't rate this as unfortunate, but rather normal....

The student gets what they can, as much as they want to get, and then does outside learning from others and practically...

How many 5 year engineers can say that they really knew what they were doing (knowing what they know after the 5yrs of practical experience) when they graduated? Most learned the practical skills after the graduation happened.

I think it is the same in scuba. You are given the tools in class, and then you go practice them (according to your particular motivation to get better) and you come out later hopefully having improved.

Having perfection guaranteed right out of OW is not practical, and is costly, IMHO. If you practice buoyancy at the bottom of the ocean, that's what you know the best....buoyancy while touching the bottom....At some point, after watching others and talking with them, and after practice outside of class, folks improve.

Bummer, but still how it is.

 

[scubasean]

equalize once bubbled...


My 5th through 10th dives were all in cold, fresh water, no current, wearing 7 mil wetsuit and 24lbs of weight. My next dives will be in Mexico, wearing a 3 mil hyperstretch. I haven't the slightest idea, what the difference in weight to keep neutral bouyancy should be.

Any suggestions?

The test is when the tank is empty...So, if you are now weighted correctly wearing a 7 mil in fresh water and you move to a 3 mil in salt, I'd guess you have to add a few pounds. I'll try to look it up in my AOW book...I think going from fresh to salt is approx. 6lbs different. But I don't recall the diff. between 3 and 7 mil. (probably a few pounds, depending on the diver)

Being weighted correctly (IMHO) means that you can hold a safety stop reasonably easily at 500 psi or so.

 

[DeepScuba]

Haha Hey EOD

.........We did the fin-pivot and hoover exercises............

I've got mt HOOVERING down to a science...........1.3cf/min/ATA at rest :tease:

 

[Genesis]

Being weighted correctly (IMHO) means that you can hold a safety stop reasonably easily at 500 psi or so.

Absolutely not.

Follow this advice and you will some day find yourself low on gas and a foot high, and have to fight to stay down - the EXACT time when you cannot afford the gas to do so.

You want to be weighted for neutral at the surface with a nearly-empty tank. 500 psi maximum. "Neutral" is defined for this purpose as neither floating or sinking with about half a normal inhalation in your lungs; if you exhale your normal tidal volume you should sink, and if you inhale it you should rise. You must check this at the END of a dive, not the beginning, because nearly all wetsuits will trap some air until you decend and thus throw off your check and besides, you start with a full tank, right?

If you are diving a wetsuit, this will likely require 1-2lbs more than the same setup at 15'.

If you weight for 15', you will eventually find yourself fighting like a dog to maintain a safety stop, low on gas, and ultimately you may go OOA as a consequence of it. All avoidable.

Do not make this mistake. It is grossly unsafe, even though it is the "dive agency parroting" that they will ALL try to give you in your OW class. THINK instead of just "believe".

The time when you care most about proper weighting is when you find yourself (due to some contingency we hope, not due to a planning failure!) low on gas and needing to make that stop. This is the time when you must be calm, cool, collected and able to easily, without effort, hold that stop depth. If you can do so 500 psi will last a LONG time - and that time spent on the stop is your friend, especially if you're in that situation due to a gear failure or some other contingency that has led you to overstay your welcome at depth.

If you are underweighted you will fail at this task, your gas consumption will skyrocket, and that will happen at the exact moment when you don't have the gas to spend fighting it.

 

[Lead_carrier]

Genesis once bubbled...
Ok, so yesterday I go diving with my newly-certified g/f.

And I now have a rant about training. See, this was her first "real" Ow experience after class.....

Needless to say, she smoked it up and good. We're going to go spend some time at the Jetties this coming weekend, or somewhere that a tank will last her an hour (and the depth will permit such an exposure) and do NOTHING OTHER THAN LEARNING TO GET AND STAY NEUTRAL.

This was basically ignored in her class, and its obvious.

:wacko: Genesis.. I'm surprised at you. :wacko: Lettting someone else teach your g/f to dive? As much as you rant about LDS's I figured you'd teach her yourself. You have all the equipment that you need to dive with so she wouldn't need to go to the shop for a fill, equipment or service. You have all the equipment that most small shops have so why waste her time with a formal class?

 

[HammerNoMore]

Lead_carrier once bubbled...
As much as you rant about LDS's I figured you'd teach her yourself.

That would probably be the quickest way possible to make her an ex girlfriend .

James