Diver Safety/Preparedness – An Informal Study

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Thanks so much to everyone who has responded so far -- the wealth of insight, experience and history here is amazing. In case anyone is wondering, this is NOT an invite-only thread. I spent a couple of hours the other night (midnight to 2 a.m.) PM'ing everyone I could think of or find with the requisite experience just to make sure they were aware of the thread in case they wanted to participate. The response has been really generous, by the way. If you didn't get a PM from me, you're still invited! I just couldn't find everybody at 2 a.m. :D

I feel like reading these posts is giving me a broader, big-picture sense of diving, and I hope it is doing that for others as well. If anyone's been watching the thread and wondering if you should chime in... you should! :)
 
…I find it interesting how some divers judge others ...
"I took my training from *******" so I am a better diver.
"You dive with ****** equipment so I am a better diver than you"
"I have ***** dives so I am a better diver"
"I have ***** bottom time so I am a better diver"
"I have *** SAC rate so I am a better diver"
"I dive in colder water than you so I am a better diver"
"You are too ****** so you shouldn't be diving"

All we really need to know is ... "Can this diver complete this dive without endangering him/herself, others or the environment?"

It astounds me how many people take it upon themselves to berate other divers in the name of "helping" them become whatever their view of a good diver is! ….

I believe you missed the point of most posts. If any berating was taking place it was the current state of recreational diver training. Longer classes have a higher probability of turning out competent people than shorter ones, in any field. Learning a skill in harsher conditions requires a higher level of student commitment than in milder conditions. Learning to dive in drysuits and low visibility is part of Scuba 101 by necessity in Northern Scotland, but not in the Virgin Islands.

Some of your points may be indicators of a diver’s experience and skills, but we all use a variety of criteria to judge people’s abilities every day. Would you want to make a dive to the Doria with someone who only has 50 dives in the Caymans to 60' while on vacation?

Would you judge the skills of a US Navy Master Diver to be higher than a PADI Master Scuba Diver who happened to be 12 years old with 60 dives in Florida? Assuming your answer is “probably” then you are guilty of the same “berating”. However, that 12 year old may be a “better diver” in shallow home waters than the 90 year old Navy Chief suffering from Alzheimer’s.
 
SB features numerous discussions about how the safety and quality of diving today compare to times past. There is much concern about how changing training standards may impact long-term diver safety and the integrity of the industry as a whole. There are impassioned opinions about this which often result in SB debates that start out being quite educational and too often devolve into name-calling and one-upmanship (or one-downmanship, as the case may be).

There are various statistics available which unfortunately cannot be compiled in a way that allows us to clearly see, one way or another, how overall dive safety now compares to, say, 10-15 years ago.

A thought-provoking topic. To begin, I believe that a very important issue in all of this is how the diving industry has changed, essentially from local diving to vacation diving. From a timeline standpoint, this change did occur more than only 10-15 years ago, but I personally believe that it nevertheless has a historical contribution and significance.

Here are some initial ideas for what you might compare, but I hope those of you who respond will add and comment upon any others you think useful:

Ability to properly assemble one’s own SCUBA gear (for a dive, not on a workbench) and assess that it is fully functional and safe.

IMO, what has become more commonplace are the "Valet" dive operations who set up the gear for the vacationing customer, which makes it harder to gage who has competency and who doesn't. I also had a "cattleboat" dive in Hawaii a few years ago where the majority of the customers were on rental gear. Overall, I suspect that it has gone down but if it has, I'd blame it more on skill atrophy because the "service" aspect of the business has chosen to take on this responsibility as a customer selling point.

Ability to make sound dive plans.

IMO, it has gone down ... but mostly because dive computers have allowed us to become lazy and swim a "wherever we want" multilevel profile. However, so long as the diver understands his time-vs-depth trade-off and SAC planning aspects, I don't see any particular issue with not having a strict discipline of an "80fsw for 20 minutes" which disallows depth excursions to see a whale shark swim by, etc.

Buoyancy control.

The people who were good, were good. The people who were bad, still are. I don't think that training ... then or now ... really was able to make for a huge difference.

Except...I think that the addition of the 3min@15fsw safety stop has actually helped improve this skill overall. For example, I can recall resort diving 20+ years ago where some resort diveboats actually had a PVC pipe that they would literally drop off the side of the boat (it ran horizontally at 10fsw) and we would hang from it like riders on a subway car. Today, it appears that many more divers are comfortable doing freefloaing stops in the "neighborhood" of the diveboat (vs directly underneath), although there's still the novices who will walk up the anchor line (as they probably should).


Proper trim/weighting for the purpose of the dive.

IMO, worse...but not for the reason(s) you might suspect.

First, I've repeatedly lent a sympathetic ear to a frustrated Diveshop manager who needed to vent his spleen at not being allowed to reform the horrible overweighting present amongst 50+% of an organized dive group that came in. The problem is a combination of a clueless Instructor Leader of that group who disregards the local knowledge of the local Dive Op staff professionals, and then his group stays together as a tight clique, unwilling to listen to any outsiders.

FWIW, note that this folds into many other dimensions too: such parochialism affects far more than just trim/weighting. Also, the local dive staff may often be motivated to bite their tongue on some dive issue or another, in order to keep the visiting customers "happy".

Second, I've seen an IMO undue reliance on technology, specifically the BP/Wing, since its general characteristics make trim "easy" in a horizontal orientation. Divers are less aware of system trade-offs and gear interactions: they're looking for the quick, easy (and brainless) fix.


Controlled descents and ascents.

Divers are less crazy today (descent); the 30ft/min alarms on dive computers seem to have curtailed rapid / uncontrolled ascents. I'd say that both have gotten better, although I'm not necessarily sure that I'd attribute it to dive training.

Awareness and practice of effective buddy procedures.

Can't really say that I've seen all that much of a change.

Awareness and respect for sea life, reefs.

I'd say that both "Respect" and actual knowledge of critters has declined from its peak in the late 1990s.

Self-awareness – knowing and respecting one’s own limits.

Hard to say. People seem to be doing a better job in not disobeying their dive computers, but it is unclear to me if this is because they don't understand that tool's limitations (and are thus perhaps willing to disregard it at times), or if they're simply being pragmatic and don't want to have to sit out a dive-day due to a violation causing a locked-out computer ...oh, and also how more dive computers aren't as easily reset (to eliminate such violations).

I do believe that the percentages haven't really changed all that much for common errors ... quarry/lake divers who didn't know to plan for currents, etc.

Ability to deal calmly with issues that may arise during a dive (equipment surprises, entanglement, etc).

Can't really say that I can recall any applicable 'events' with which to gage how people responded, now vs then. Maybe something will come to me.


Ability to assist other divers as needed (not necessarily a full rescue scenario, but helping with the little glitches that could result in a rescue situation if not addressed early)

Ditto.

Self-sufficiency vs. necessary dependence on dive professionals in the water on a dive.

Within just the past few years, I've seemed to notice an upswing in "Follow the DM everywhere" patterns. Some of this seems to be motivated by an attitude that they know where the best things are on a dive site, so its not particularly clear if this is really a dependency or not.

Approach to diving as a serious sport vs. just another vacation activity.

Oddly, this question reminded me of an old magazine article ... "Cayman Cowboys", circa 1995. I think that there's a lot that can be said on this topic, which also includes a discussion of the labor pool that the dive industry ...well, I don't want to say "uses" as much as I want to say "exploits". I think I heard it best described to me a decade ago by a friend (who was getting out) as a field that attracts "dive gypsy" personalities who generally last only a few years as a DM at a Dive Resort before burning out. It doesn't take that much of an effort to connect-the-dots between the qualifications of this labor pool and things like how the Agencies historically hadn't required an Instructor to even have a High School Diploma (FWIW, is this still the case?).


Real understanding of the risks of diving.

I *want* to believe that it has declined, although this is also more of a "20 years ago" vs 10. It has, however, been offset by the Internet Age for information dissemination...I think that the average diver has much more and far higher quality information available to them today than ever before, but "You Can Lead A Horse To Water, But You Can't Make Him Drink" applies.


Frequency of dive-related incidents resulting in injury/death (taking into account that there are more total divers today)

Frequency of new divers leaving the sport due to an early bad experience (taking into account that there are more total divers today).

Frankly, I'd be curious as to what the basis is to suggest that there really are more divers today. Sure, there's more people alive today who have a C-Card which permits them to dive if they so wish (such as both of my brothers), but "Inactive Divers" shouldn't be counted in frequency statistics.

In any case, I think that my anecdotal trend is more minor accidents and fewer major ones ... and I think that this really more closely trends to the statistics of the dive profiles being dived - - there's many more "Baby" dives in warmwater shallows and far fewer "Stupid/Macho" ones (eg, deep air bounce to 200fsw over a bottomless wall). Some of this shift is IMO probably due to the diver population is continuing to shift to be older, and IMO, more female: the stereotype of the young, fit, aggressive, overconfident & risk-taking single male seems to be an endangered species. IMO, this factor probably trends more to the demographic that is being attracted to (and is staying with) diving today than how they happen to be taught.


-hh
 
All we really need to know is ... "Can this diver complete this dive without endangering him/herself, others or the environment?"

It astounds me how many people take it upon themselves to berate other divers in the name of "helping" them become whatever their view of a good diver is! If more people offered advice in a more encouraging, supportive way but only when asked or really necessary for safety I think more new divers would keep active.

Experienced divers are a great assets to the community but condescending attitudes discourage newer divers from tapping in to this valuable source of wisdom. I know of some newer divers who avoid diving with experienced divers because they are embarrassed by their skill level or fed up with the lectures! We all started with limited skills. I learned more from mimicking my more experienced buddies than I did on course but they never made a big deal of my skills.

I believe you missed the point of most posts. If any berating was taking place it was the current state of recreational diver training. Longer classes have a higher probability of turning out competent people than shorter ones, in any field. Learning a skill in harsher conditions requires a higher level of student commitment than in milder conditions. Learning to dive in drysuits and low visibility is part of Scuba 101 by necessity in Northern Scotland, but not in the Virgin Islands.

Some of your points may be indicators of a diver’s experience and skills, but we all use a variety of criteria to judge people’s abilities every day. Would you want to make a dive to the Doria with someone who only has 50 dives in the Caymans to 60' while on vacation?

Would you judge the skills of a US Navy Master Diver to be higher than a PADI Master Scuba Diver who happened to be 12 years old with 60 dives in Florida? Assuming your answer is “probably” then you are guilty of the same “berating”. However, that 12 year old may be a “better diver” in shallow home waters than the 90 year old Navy Chief suffering from Alzheimer’s.

I believe you are wrong in your interpretation of what I have missed or not missed from most of the posts here. Perhaps I didn't explain my point well enough:idk: I did not say or in any way mean to imply that people have been berating anyone in this thread!

BERATE "To rebuke or scold angrily and at length." berate - definition of berate by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

My point was that uninvited rebukes and lectures given to divers based on personal biases ( I listed some examples) are counterproductive. What matters is their skill in the water and if they have the necessary background to conduct the planned dive safely! People can and do claim all sorts of skill and experience that may only be their perception of reality!

IMHO the only time uninvited advice is justified is when it relates to safety (the diver's or yours if you are going to buddy with them) or a dive professional is having to take responsibility for the safety of the diver. The advice needs to be done respectfully and not in a condescending manner or it will not be effective. There is a huge difference between BERATING someone and coming to reasonable conclusions about what dives you feel safe in conducting with them.

I am not required or inclined to "judge" the skills of the divers you have described unless I am diving with them at which point I will make my decision based on how they perform. I subscribe the the Rule "Any diver can call any dive for any reason without fear of rebuke" I also subscribe to the rule "Any diver can refuse to buddy with any other diver without rebuke" (Obviously dive professionals are a different issue).

You may have a different perspective on the general quality and safety of the average diver than I :idk: maybe not. In this thread we have been asked to submit our personal opinions and perspectives so that is what everyone is entitled to do as long as it is done with respect and within ToS
 
HH-
That is very well thought out, and expressed response. Really enjoyed your insight!

Thanks.

In speaking with a purposefully very broad brush, I think that a lot of the reasons for the historical discussions in the "Concerned Over Watered Down Training" topic are basically been on a concern for safety which says that a reduction in diver skills/competency should have resulted in more deaths/accidents ... but this hasn't happened, and they're unable to figure out precisely why.

We've seen dive training change over the years, and the claimed rationale has often been that "unnecessary" stuff has been eliminated (which infers that past divers were literally over-trained), plus that the procedures have been reorganized to be more efficient (improved productivity of training).

While both are probably have elements of truth within them, the IMO more basic underlying motivation was to grow the industry by increasing the consumer base via a strategy of reducing the barriers to entry. The net result of this is that there clearly must have been "reductions" in diver training comprehensiveness that have occurred which ate into whatever our safety margin existed to the point, although it didn't appeared to have had resulted in any significant change to reported accident incidence rates.

However, what I believe has happened ... and which is also a significant contributing factor ... is that diving has become "easier" (lower risk) on average.

Specifically, since circa ~1985, diving has undergone a very significant shift in the statistical distribution of the types of dives that were being performed: the typically more "difficult" local coldwater diving has declined and the "easy" tropical vacation diving has increased.

Now where things get interesting is that if a larger percentage of the diving being performed today are lower risk, then we should have seen a clear & significant reduction occur. Granted, it has been quite awhile, but I used to buy every single one of the DAN Annual Accident Reports (and read them cover-to-cover): my recollections are that the incidence rates have been pretty darn constant at around 100 deaths/year for many years now.

What the implications are is that if the diving population (as a generalized whole) is doing safer-on-average dive profiles, if the accident rate isn't also declining commensurately ... then statistically, divers simply cannot be as "safe" as they used to be.

FWIW, while it is tempting to blame training for this, there are other risk factors which will naturally contribute, such as diver health & fitness (heart attacks, etc). Of course, when we also see that the training standards have been relaxed on such fitness matters (and other classical contraindicactors), we might also conclude that relaxed training standards are actually in part to blame.

An aside that doesn't fit well with this conversation's flow: there's also a philisophical question on what is/isn't "Acceptable Risk" in terms of annual fatality rates. It seems that the same ~100/year is what everyone is comfortable with, regardless of the basis for their comfort with this Status-Quo.

There's other philisphically-based questions to ask too. For example, should there be an issue with having the training standards only require a "basic" set of diving skills if all that that diver is going to do are the equally basic "easy" dives under benign conditions? Yes, the shortcoming here is that conditional "if", and how we are able to adequately educate divers to stay out of conditions that they're not qualified for...currently, the industry does a poor job of this by the very nature of the "AOW" name that they use in their product marketing.

What's subtle to all of this is that it was pretty much expected back in "The Old Days" that a first year novice would finish training with 4 dives, then pair up with a slightly more experienced mentoring (non-instructing) diver and go gain his experience locally, which often could be on a coldwater wreck dive to 120fsw with <10ft viz, currents, 6ft swells, fishing net entangement hazards, and a two foot long "Jersey Reel" full of biodegradable siscal rope strapped to him for a self-rescue contingency ascent line. And probably by his 3rd or 4th season, he could be out there diving those same wrecks with twins, diving deeper (still on air), doing penetrations and staged decompression stops. Does this sound like a dive profile that any of us would be comfortable taking a random modern OW+AOW graduate out on? If you're puckering, it is because our "Old, Non-Bold" (survivor) instincts are telling us that we're recognizing objective risks in the dive profile in addition to the uncertainty risk for the applicability of an OW+AOW graduate's training programs to have adequately minimized those risks.

Sure, we can say "Oh, he should go take Boat Specialty, Wreck Speciality, Low Viz & Currents Specialty....etc", or we can suggest that such diving is "extreme" and part ofTraining's CYA of "Local Conditions"...and so on. But the simpler truth is that twenty years ago, all of this special fussing wasn't considered necessary, because the OW graduate was adequately prepared, by being well-grounded in diving fundimentals and if not, a dozen dives with the mentoring dive buddy would do the rest. The classical saying that Instructors would close their courses out with was: "If you can dive here (under these tough conditions), you can dive anywhere in the world!".

And while it is true that this sort of "local coldwater diving" experience development still occurs, but it isn't figuratively 90% of all divers like it used to be years ago, and it isn't contained within today's minimum standards anymore either.

By today's standards, some of the stuff that I was taught in my formal OW training from ~30 years ago probably sounds downright insane. For example, our classwork one day was literally to go calculate the dive plan and staged deco requirements for a 180fsw dive on air ... and after I finished, I asked why we would do such a thing, the Instructor's response was: "This is the profile that you'll be doing on the "Texas Tower" a few years from now."

Yes, that's a dive instructor who was preparing his students for the relevant real-world local diving conditions...and what's different is that it didn't used to be an extra-cost Speciality, but simply expected...and also keep in mind that this was only an OW class. The best students in the class were approached to see if they were interested DM training as their next "Step Up".

My conclusions are that IMO, the comprehensiveness of dive training has declined, but we've been able to avoid being punished by it because we're taking lower risks ("easier" dives). However, diving can only be "dumbed down" to some TBD finite level of low risk ("easy") dives, so if training comprehensiveness were to continue to decline, we would inevitably reach a point where annual accident rates would clearly increase.

Unfortunately, it seems that no one considers the current rate of ~100 deaths/year to be a problem, and given market & business pressures, I'm afraid that "extra" people will have to die for several years before there is enough attention to recognize a problem and prompt a meaningful correction within the Industry to stabilize and restore balance. What's particularly disconcerting is that we may have already passed this "Houston, We Have A Problem" tipping point, but we are unable to recognize it because due to the downturn in the Economy which has certainly reduced the number of dives done per year: we need to remember that our "100 deaths/year" is a raw number that doesn't have the contextual insight of an actual incidence rate. Once again, not knowing exactly how many dives/year are actually performed limits our ability to assess what's really going on.


-hh
 
Now where things get interesting is that if a larger percentage of the diving being performed today are lower risk, then we should have seen a clear & significant reduction occur. Granted, it has been quite awhile, but I used to buy every single one of the DAN Annual Accident Reports (and read them cover-to-cover): my recollections are that the incidence rates have been pretty darn constant at around 100 deaths/year for many years now.

You are misremembering.

The first decade of the study (starting in 1970), which was significantly more limited in geographical area than is covered now, averaged about 130 deaths per year. The last decade of the study, which covers all of North America, averages roughly 87 deaths per year. (I eyeballed those numbers; I could be off a fraction.) The one I am looking at now (not the last one) shows that in the first 12 years of the study, in the best year there were more deaths than in the worst year of the last 11 years of the study.

So there has been a significant decrease in those statistics.
 
Now where things get interesting is that if a larger percentage of the diving being performed today are lower risk, then we should have seen a clear & significant reduction occur. Granted, it has been quite awhile, but I used to buy every single one of the DAN Annual Accident Reports (and read them cover-to-cover): my recollections are that the incidence rates have been pretty darn constant at around 100 deaths/year for many years now.

You are misremembering.

The first decade of the study (starting in 1970), which was significantly more limited in geographical area than is covered now, averaged about 130 deaths per year. The last decade of the study, which covers all of North America, averages roughly 87 deaths per year. (I eyeballed those numbers; I could be off a fraction.) The one I am looking at now (not the last one) shows that in the first 12 years of the study, in the best year there were more deaths than in the worst year of the last 11 years of the study.

So there has been a significant decrease in those statistics.
 
You are misremembering.

Oh, I probably am, to a certain degree. Its very easily been 5 years since I've taken a serious look at the available statistics.

The first decade of the study (starting in 1970), which was significantly more limited in geographical area than is covered now, averaged about 130 deaths per year. The last decade of the study, which covers all of North America, averages roughly 87 deaths per year. (I eyeballed those numbers; I could be off a fraction.)

And the 1970s would encompass the "Bad Old Days" of cave diving, before that became a formally trained discipline (due to many deaths). I also personally recall that in at least DAN's relatively recent reports (somewhere!) that they also mentioned that their reporting sample had been scrubbed to remove all fatalities incurred by "Professionals" (eg, Commercial, DMs and Instructors)...this makes it a logical subset of all accidents and not directly comparable to prior studies/reports. DAN might have also excluded all Tech diving in an attempt to make their studies a more pure examination of "recreational diving", but I can't recall offhand if this was true or false memory.

In any case, I simply see these as warning flags to make doubly sure that our data sets are indeed comparable before daring to proceed to look at them statistically for long term trends.


The one I am looking at now (not the last one) shows that in the first 12 years of the study, in the best year there were more deaths than in the worst year of the last 11 years of the study.

So there has been a significant decrease in those statistics.

My reports are boxed up, on an inconveniently high shelf; I'd have to move around 10,000 underwater slides to get to it. In any case, we are at best (worst?) talking about going from ~130 to only ~87 over a 40 year period, right? That represents a trend slope of roughly -1%/year, which is an amazingly flat line considering that it supposedly represents raw data that hasn't yet been normalized for any other contributing factors, such as for any change in size of the "active diver population" (as well as potentially to how an "active diver" was defined over those years) over the same 40 year period.


-hh
 
As I have pointed out in the past using the NUADC and DAN reports is statistically perilous.

The studies did not use the same methodologies and thus there is a discrepancy between the NAUDC data and analysis and that of DAN. There are numerous reasons for this that I do not feel are germane here, but this does need to be acknowledged.

The NUADC collected cases based on subsequent investigation of newspaper reports provided by clipping services as well as a network of "reporters" that was developed where a lot of diving was being conducted. DAN has the internet and it's own reporting network. Doing this sort of work today has become much, much easier ... heck ScubaBoard would be an invaluable source.

Cardiac cases are likely underestimated in the NAUDC data, and better and more knowledgeable coroners have shifted the number of cardiac cases higher in the DAN report, so we've got rater severe bias there.

Overweighting seems to have been a major factor since the advent of BCs, my memory is that it was less frequent in the early days.

With respect to training cases, the NUADC classified it as a training fatality regardless of the circumstances, regardless of the cause, if the person was enrolled in a training class and was engaged in a training dive, keep in mind that in the days of the NAUDC there was Basic Diver and Instructor without many other classes. I have always felt that DAN was a bit of a creature of the industry and bent over backwards to present things in best light. I suppose the opposite criticism could be leveled at the NAUDC since they "needed" to demonstrate to their funding sources that a problem worth studying existed.

NUADC data included all cases found that occurred in US waters or in which the victim was a US national anywhere in the world. DAN cases are, I believe, world-wide, all nationalities.

There is also the problem that there is not only a statistically suspect numerator, but there is no denominator. Raw numbers of fatalities mean nothing, to make them meaningful you need to have a "per something". Fatalities per diver, fatalities per dive, fatalities per certification, etc. Since there are no denominators using the raw fatality number (even if it were a valid number) would still be meaningless. You could explain the change by claiming that the number of dives had dropped, the number of divers had dropped, etc. But let us also look at the numerator, has there been a sequence of numbers collected with consistency through the years? The answer to that is no, there has not been. Our charter at the NUADC was not to look at the numbers so we could judge change over time, it was (dictated by our funding sources, NOAA, NIOSH, OSHA and the USCG) to look in the causes and possible preventions. So we cast our net wide, if someone died in the water with scuba gear on, we were chartered to look into it. So our raw numbers were high, leading to the old argument of, "is an underwater heart attack a diving accident?" or, "if someone is run over by a boat is that a diving accident?" When DAN took over their bias was to throw out such incidents since there was nothing about diving per se to be learned from them and because DAN's medical bias pushed them in the direction of anatomical/physiological/medical modalities. So if you are just looking at raw numbers and want to argue that risks have dropped because the raw numbers have dropped, you are on very shaky ground.
 
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