DM for recreational diver?

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devils advocate - being a divemaster makes you the most experience diver on a tour (usually). being the most experienced diver means that some responsibility will befall you (USA) whenever you dive with a group of people. if something goes down, you can/will be involved in some form or fashion.

just something to think about. not trying to tell you to not get your divemaster...

:D
 
devils advocate - being a divemaster makes you the most experience diver on a tour (usually). being the most experienced diver means that some responsibility will befall you (USA) whenever you dive with a group of people. if something goes down, you can/will be involved in some form or fashion.

just something to think about. not trying to tell you to not get your divemaster...

:D

Just being a devil's advocate myself but how is being a divemaster going to make anyone the most experienced diver on a tour unless they were already the most experienced diver? You don't get a lot of "experience" with a DM course. I guess it depends on what you mean by "experience". If you are referring to training in a leadership role than sure but if you are talking about experience in the broadest sense as in "someone with a lot of dive experience" then this has little to do with being a DM.

I guess you are talking about possibly taking on more legal liability if you are acting as a DM and something goes wrong. If you are on your own with friends however can you really be acting as a DM? I don't know. Just asking. I thought that a DM had to be under an instructor.
 
I really learned a lot in my DM class. I was challenged mentally and physically but was I working on on my skills as a diver? No. In my DM class, which I took to improve my knowledge and not to become a teaching professional but to learn more, the skills were expected to exist already. I respect the DM's and instructors more because of my training.
 
Others have touched on this point, and I want to reinforce it. Being a divemaster or otherwise a more qualified diver won't automatically make you any more liable in the event of an accident, but you have to be mindful the group dynamics.

Regardless of your certification level, if you project yourself as a leader you create a situation such that when things go wrong others could claim that they relied on your greater expertise and judgement and try to hold you legally liable. Being a DM (and telling folks that you are) might reinforce their claim.

When doing bareboat charters, make sure that you clearly establish that you're all just a group of friends sharing things equally. For instance, have each person sign the charter papers. Likewise with diving; when renting equipment, each person should deal with the shop individually, as opposed to you making the arrangements for the group.

In general, try to spread responsibility throughout the group, doing things by consensus rather than establishing a leader/follower model. It isn't a matter of whether you take the lead from time to time, it's more a matter of the overall tone, and the legal footprints you leave in the sand.

Sadly, we live in a litigious society and when things go wrong there'll be finger pointing, and you don't want all the fingers pointing at you.
 
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I have to agree that becoming a DM won't necessarily make you the most experienced person in the group but it can! It is true that the bulk of the DM course, at least the PADI version, focuses on good leadership skills and what makes a "professional" but, with the help of a good instructor, you can also build your dive skills and problem-solving skills. In fact, if more dive experience is what you seek through the DM course, I would specifically search for an lds/instructor who can accommodate this desire. For example, work with a lds or instructor who will have you fulfill the "intern" portion of the DM course so that you get real-world, hands-on training with real divers in real dive situations. Go on as many extra dives as you can, to build your own personal dive history but also to work with as many divers/dive experiences as possible.

Also, you'll hopefully be assisting with OW classes where you'll most likely get to see divers in true panic situations as they attempt to peform their basic scuba skills. This experience is invaluable training. Panic doesn't only happen in a pool or confined water setting, it happens in the ocean all the time - and a lot of times it happens with experienced, certified divers such as the group with which you will be doing a lot of diving! Having gone through a DM course and assisted in previous panic situations will help you to identify potential problems, hopefully nip them in the bud before they actually happen, or help you to successfully/safely handle them if/when they do occur.

So, I vote for the DM class, as long as you make your expectations to your instructor & local dive shop clear.

One final opinion (thanks for indulging me)...I would not make you the one responsible for renting/handling all the gear. Each diver should always be responsible for their gear at all times. If they don't know what they are doing, they shouldn't be diving, IMHO.
 
Just being a devil's advocate myself but how is being a divemaster going to make anyone the most experienced diver on a tour unless they were already the most experienced diver? You don't get a lot of "experience" with a DM course. I guess it depends on what you mean by "experience". If you are referring to training in a leadership role than sure but if you are talking about experience in the broadest sense as in "someone with a lot of dive experience" then this has little to do with being a DM.

I guess you are talking about possibly taking on more legal liability if you are acting as a DM and something goes wrong. If you are on your own with friends however can you really be acting as a DM? I don't know. Just asking. I thought that a DM had to be under an instructor.
gcbryan - I am talking about taking on more of a legal obligation. The course in and of itself will not make you the "most" experienced. Only diving more gives you the real-world experience that would make you the "most" experienced. What it does do, though, is give you a title that most people do not understand. I know of a few DM's that were drawn into legal action (they were not even working) simply by being on a dive. The system can work against you sometimes. I know a ton of instructors and DM's alike who refuse to show anything more than their OW C-Card for fear of added responsibility. It's not right, I'm just saying...
 
Wow really? both you an Lynn are this incitefull? Last I read they wanted to kick her off for having to many thanks... ... Double trouble.

Hope you meant "insightful" rather than "inciteful"... (sorry - grammar pedant).
 
Hope you meant "insightful" rather than "inciteful"... (sorry - grammar pedant).

Rhone man, Has it occured to you that some people can be both at the same time?
 
Hope you meant "insightful" rather than "inciteful"... (sorry - grammar pedant).

Actually - it was meant to be a play on words... While it has insight (perspective) it equally will incite (provoke) futher discussion. --- However most people think of/use it with in a more negitive light e.g. incite a riot.

Eitherway it was meant to be a lighthearted compliment!

j
 

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