Do you dive Side-Mount or Side Slung??

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I use the adjustable/sliding D rings, works fine for me :), i have also used 2 d rings per side one for when the cylinders are full and another for when they're empty but i definitely prefer the sliders. To each their own.
 
Using rubber rings from xDeep Stealth and like it a lot.
I do believe that each diver needs to grow into his rig, be it SM or BM.

Are you currently diving the XDeep stealth or just using that style D-ring? Mine is on order and I'm waiting for it to come in.


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IWhile I agree in principle, I can see why PADI, and any agency for that matter, would hesitate to stipulate to a greater degree. You said it yourself:I can see the value of an outcome-based standard as suggested, though. A very good question. I wonder how many agencies offering SM courses have standards even as specific as the ones in the PADI instructor guide? I don't say that to promote PADI or criticize or any agency - I am really curious.

More important to any course at all; eqiipment standards are a double edged sword.

The one I have a particular issue with is PADI's insistence that the long hose for Tec Sidemount has to be on the right tank. There are historical reasons to standardize BM doubles that simply do not exist for SM doubles. As far as I can remember, in fact, in requiring the long hose on the right tank the SM course is more specific than general Tec standards.

I had some discussions with PADI about this back when they first published the Sidemount outlines; and they hemmed and hawed but in the end they said standards are standards.

---------- Post added February 23rd, 2013 at 06:13 PM ----------

put a triglide and Dring on your waist belt just forward or behind where the shoulder strap attaches. Move the rear clip forward when the butts get light.

The difficulty with that is that it only works when the diver is face down.

(In that respect it is no different than steel hung off the door handles.)
 
Are you currently diving the XDeep stealth or just using that style D-ring? Mine is on order and I'm waiting for it to come in.


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Just using the attachment rubber rings in another rig that works well for me. Sometimes using the camel bag for redundancy. Harness is not used a much as I thought I would. Difficulty to adapt it to different body types is one issue. Most off the shelf do not fit my requirements.
 
beanojones:
eqiipment standards are a double edged sword.
Yes, hence my hesitation!
The one I have a particular issue with is PADI's insistence that the long hose for Tec Sidemount has to be on the right tank. There are historical reasons to standardize BM doubles that simply do not exist for SM doubles. As far as I can remember, in fact, in requiring the long hose on the right tank the SM course is more specific than general Tec standards.
A very good point! I think some practices continue simply because of history and inertia, and evolve into 'standards' because most people seem to be doing them (albeit, simply because of history and inertia). I was watching a Dive Rite video the other day in which Lamar discusses the regulator set up for sidemount. In that video, he discusses putting the long hose on the LEFT bottle and the bungee necklace on the right side. I don't do it that way, never thought of doing it that way, but I also can't think of a reason not to. The use of a long hose / bungeed necklace set-up for SM came out of back-mount, as far as I can tell. Most of the early SM divers started as BM divers, and carried over practices from one configuration to the other. The long hose / bungeed necklace does not necessarily have quite the same utility in independent doubles. At the same time, more than a few SM divers and SM instructors use a long hose on each bottle. Some use a 7 ft hose on each bottle, some use a 5 ft. I am on the fence - stuck in historical inertia to a certain extent. I started SM with the 'traditional' hose configuration (because I came to SM from BM), after a while switched to two 5 ft hoses. Then, I switched back to the 'traditional'. I teach new SM divers that such a configuration is common with BM doubles, that using it in SM is functional (if they balance their gas consumption from each bottle), but they will see other approaches. Most of my OW SM students have come from BM doubles, and they 'get' the set-up.

In the context of this thread, I would really prefer that PADI / another agency NOT stipulate hose lengths or configurations. But, they do.
beanojones:
I had some discussions with PADI about this back when they first published the Sidemount outlines; and they hemmed and hawed but in the end they said standards are standards.
On one hand, I can see why they went this route - it is 'common', if not 'standard', and the individual who is probably most responsible for PADI's move into sidemount came from a BM background. It was a good starting point. On the other, making it a standard imposes some burdens on instructors and actually has the potential to dampen enthusiasm for innovation. Better that it be a recommendation rather than a standard, in my view. But, that gets right back at the heart of one of Andy's posts in this thread. Is it better to have the configuration as a standard, so that students know that SM is a tangible configuration? There is merit in that. I just don't know how far to go. For example, I use omni-swivels on both second stages. I show students that configuration, and some have adopted it. There are SM divers who use a fixed angle adapter, and would suggest that omni-swivels are dangerous. I would not recommend them as a standard. But, I sure don't want them prohibited because because a fixed angle swivel becomes a 'standard'.
 
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I can see a number of feasible reasons why the Tec Sidemount course uses that configuration. The course is designed to appeal to divers from several different backgrounds; primarily those existing technical divers crossing into sidemount...and those recreational divers who are contemplating/progressing into tech.

A smaller percentage (?) of recreational divers will opt for the 'tec' rather than the basic because "tech is cool"...and they'll have a genuine, bona-fide tec card in their wallets (even though it qualifies them to do nothing more than the basic sidemount course does...).

My thoughts:

1) TecSM should be consistent with TecBM in respect of air sharing/hose config. This permits easier team diving and consistency.

2) A significant proportion of those opting for TecSM, will have overhead environments in mind.

3) A significant proportion of those opting for TecSM will have pre-existing familiarity with hogarthian hose configuration.

4) TecSM qualified divers may, or may not, opt to conduct later Tec courses in SM or BM. Some may choose to bounce between SM and BM. Again, consistency.

5) Long hose on both cylinders seems like an equipment solution to a skills problem. Gas management dictates only one long hose is necessary for sharing.

6) Sidemount permits access through very tight restrictions. Very tight restrictions might preclude a 5' hose for sharing during passage through such restrictions.

7) Without a tangible standard, there will be muppets teaching nonsense. I'm in favor of sidemount standards, even where I disagree with some of them.

8) "License to innovate" does not work with an agency that fast-tracks and qualifies instructors who possess minimal experience in the rig.

Whilst I respect Lamar greatly, I'd pay more heed to some of his YouTube instructionals (adverts?) if were not for his conflict of interest as designated spokesman for DiveRite. DiveRite now sell dedicated SM regulator package. It's only available with long-hose left/short-hose right. Does the tail wag the dog...or the dog wag the tail? I dunno....

Also, PADI is soon to announce the integration of Tec Sidemount with the Tec40/45/50 program. Not just compatibility, but full integration of courses to prevent unnecessary replication. Again... hose configuration would need to be consistent between both, as would many other elements, for that to work (Training Bulletin 2ndQ - to be released).

I don't see that the basic sidemount course need stipulate long hose/short hose or right/left etc. Having said that, taking away that standard would leave divers unprepared for tech. That's easily fixed though... make Tec Sidemount the only prerequisite for wearing SM on a subsequent tec course....and/or include the 'upgrade' as part of the integrated program.
 
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I horribly disagree with number 4. What skill problem could there be? To me it is much more consistent with my backmount configuration. Why? Because no matter what regulator is in my mouth, I pass that one off and switch to my "backup". It is NOT about poor gas management.

As for the DR comment. Why would you offer it in a long hose on either reg configuration? Logistically stores now have to stock both, and maintain a stock of two items. Items that are so easily switched at the user level.
 
I horribly disagree with number 4. What skill problem could there be?

I was thinking along the lines of; they complete Tec Sidemount, followed by Tec40 in sidemount. Then they opt to complete Tec45 in backmount. At that stage, they shouldn't be learning the fundamentals of hogarthian hose rigging.

Hey..guess what... I get bubbles out of my long hose... get which cylinder I'm gonna shut down? How do those instincts work when you're swapping regs/hoses on either side from dive to dive?

As for the DR comment. Why would you offer it in a long hose on either reg configuration? Logistically stores now have to stock both, and maintain a stock of two items. Items that are so easily switched at the user level.

It's not clear if DR do offer a 'conventional' sidemount package... or whether the reg can be set-up with the hose on either side?
 
Hey..guess what... I get bubbles out of my long hose... get which cylinder I'm gonna shut down? How do those instincts work when you're swapping regs/hoses on either side from dive to dive?

I am terribly confused with this comment. You shut down whatever side is bubbling. How does having two long hoses change this? Are you saying someone would not be able to tell which long hose is bubbling? Well there you have it! We have found the skills issue.

---------- Post added February 24th, 2013 at 09:08 AM ----------

It's not clear if DR do offer a 'conventional' sidemount package... or whether the reg can be set-up with the hose on either side?

Why would a hose not be able to be moved?

---------- Post added February 24th, 2013 at 09:16 AM ----------

I was thinking along the lines of; they complete Tec Sidemount, followed by Tec40 in sidemount. Then they opt to complete Tec45 in backmount. At that stage, they shouldn't be learning the fundamentals of hogarthian hose rigging.
?
In a Hog configuration you donate what you are breathing and switch to your backup. Exactly what I do. SM diving is not hog diving. How is a short hose / long hose combo where you donate at times the reg you are not breathing any closer to hog setups then what I do?

You talk of instinct, in your setup you have to decide which hose you are breathing and then make the decision on which reg to donate. Is that the instinct you want when switching to a BM hog config where you donate what you breath?
 
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