Does one really need SM certification?

[KevinNM]

What will you scrape the frost from your windshield with on those cold mornings without another certification card?

Are you now OK with recreational sidemount on the Spree? Not that I'm planning on doing it, just curious.

 

[Superlyte27]

If you intend to take your sidemount rig into an overhead environment, and later through restrictions, then a good class is mandatory. In this case good form translates to better safety for you and your teammates.

Sidemount diving is more than just slinging a pair of tanks on your sides and hopping into the water. There are a lot of non-obvious adjustments and considerations.

I disagree completely on the "MANDATORY" part.
Lots of people are excellent sidemount divers in the overhead without a class. Certainly an excellent mentor could streamline the process and eliminate a ton of headaches, but mandatory? Nah.

 

[victorzamora]

Do you need a certification? Heck no. Do you need good training? Not really. Do you need dozens upon dozens of carefully used hours in the water tweaking your gear without great training to get your setup right? Absolutely. Would training reduce that time drastically and make you a better, safer diver? In every way.

If I were you, I'd contact Steve Lewis (Doppler on the boards) for semi-local training or Edd Sorenson at Cave Adventurers for some less-local training. Take the class. Be glad.

 

[Wookie]

Are you now OK with recreational sidemount on the Spree? Not that I'm planning on doing it, just curious.

I never "prohibited" it, I just don't see the point, but we've had many divers dive successfully sidemount. We still don't allow doubles on recreational trips though. Not a "we don't trust you" issue, it has to do with the amount of room and available tanks on the boat. And, no, if one person wanted to dive doubles, it wouldn't affect us, but if all 24 did, well, that's why we don't allow doubles on recreational trips. That, and the compressors would never keep up. It takes more work to put in the last 1000 PSI than it does the first 1000 PSI.

 

[Superlyte27]

Wookie, how many customers I gotta bring for a free tech trip?

 

[Omisson]

I never "prohibited" it, I just don't see the point, but we've had many divers dive successfully sidemount. We still don't allow doubles on recreational trips though. Not a "we don't trust you" issue, it has to do with the amount of room and available tanks on the boat. And, no, if one person wanted to dive doubles, it wouldn't affect us, but if all 24 did, well, that's why we don't allow doubles on recreational trips. That, and the compressors would never keep up. It takes more work to put in the last 1000 PSI than it does the first 1000 PSI.

Out of morbid curiosity- do you permit pony bottles on recreational dives? Do you limit the size of the pony?

So it would be ok for me to dive a single LP 120 back mount tank (say cave filled to 3750 making it a 150) and have a 40 cu/ft pony but not two LP 50s in sidemount configuration?

 

[KevinNM]

Out of morbid curiosity- do you permit pony bottles on recreational dives? Do you limit the size of the pony?

I dove the Spree with a 19 mounted to my cylinder, on the trip there was a solo diver who had a 30 or larger carried on his front in some fashion.

Requirement was that the pony not be used. If it was you were treated as if you went OOA, which meant you didn't dive again until you and Frank had a talk.

"Pony Bottlesony bottles in use aboard the M/V Spree are considered redundant safety equipment for emergency situations only. Pony bottles equipped as a redundant gas supply with first and second stage regulators will be filled once at the beginning of the charter if needed. "

 

[Wookie]

Wookie, how many customers I gotta bring for a free tech trip?

Would you like me to send you the terms and conditions for travel, along with a complete booking package outlining commissions and free spots?

Out of morbid curiosity- do you permit pony bottles on recreational dives? Do you limit the size of the pony?

So it would be ok for me to dive a single LP 120 back mount tank (say cave filled to 3750 making it a 150) and have a 40 cu/ft pony but not two LP 50s in sidemount configuration?

What Kevin said. It isn't a matter of trust, it has to do with room on the boat. Yes, you would be welcome with your LP130 and a 40 pony. If you used your 40 pony, we would consider you to be in an out of air situation, and act accordingly. You are welcome, however, to use the 15 foot "down regulator" we provide in exactly that situation. In fact, when we hear the regulator flowing gas, we will send a DM in the water immediately with a slung 80 to assist you if needed.

Then we will discuss your gas management, why you blew through 130 cubic feet of gas when everyone else made the same dive on an 80, and we'll spend the next few dives with me explaining the theory of proper gas management in a location 100 miles from the nearest help, and 200 miles from the nearest rescue helicopter, and 250 miles from the nearest guaranteed open chamber. This will take us a few dives minimum, when you could be looking at the pretty fishes to complete this upgrade to your knowledge.

Why do folks want the opportunity to circumvent safe diving rules in remote locations? I guarantee that, with 5 dives a day, you will be limited on either bottom time or your O2 clock sometime on day 2 or 3.

You would also be welcome to sidemount that 120 with a 40 (or other) pony. You will only get a single tank station, however. Your second cylinder (pony, whatever you want to call it) will have to go under your bench, where your dive gear would otherwise go.

And last but not least, it is silly for an operator to require a sidemount (or any other configuration) card. I have seen with my own eyes the results of taking sodemount training with Doppler, however. Doppler's students are rigged neatly, are trim in the water, and when they stand up they don't look like a used scuba flea market. Others, the folks who learn on their own, tweaking and adjusting and messing around by themselves in some quarry somewhere look like they covered themselves in Velcro and had someone throw their extra scuba gear on. They clump down the boat, banging and thrashing the whole way, with the butt of their cylinders swinging into other divers, making them very popular. Doppler's students stand up, their crap falls into place, they jump off the boat with no fuss or clanging, and go diving. So, at the end of the day, you don't need a certification, but training is very valuable.

 

[boulderjohn]

I took a class. I learned a whole lot when I took it. I could not have figured it out on my own. I needed someone to show me the ropes.

It does not have to be a class, but you don't want just anyone showing you the ropes. If you do a search on scubaboard, you will find several threads that spotlight terrible sidemount setups and practices. Think of this for a start: the tanks should line up with the side of your body. If someone is showing you how to do it with the tanks in front of you, then, by golly, you aren't learning sidemount, and you need someone else to show you the way.

 

[kafkaland]

Much of it has already been said. My perspective is that of someone who recently took a sub-optimal sidemount course, then was in for a bit of frustration trying to do things on his own, before everything got sorted out completely at the beginning of my cavern course.

There are two things to sidemount: the basic skills, like regulator switches, air sharing, handling the tanks under water, etc., and then all the little tweaks to actually make it comfortable. The former isn't much, you can breeze through that very quickly if you have basic diving skills. The second is something that requires the help of someone who has been around sidemount diving, with different gear configurations, and different body types in the harness, a lot. And that is usually an instructor, but not any instructor. Make sure you find someone who is doing the kind of sidemount diving you want yo follow, and has taught a lot of it. Figuring it all out on your own instead of learning it from a good instructor is certainly possible, but tedious in most likely frustrating.