Does one really need SM certification?

[kafkaland]

I took a class. I learned a whole lot when I took it. I could not have figured it out on my own. I needed someone to show me the ropes.

It does not have to be a class, but you don't want just anyone showing you the ropes. If you do a search on scubaboard, you will find several threads that spotlight terrible sidemount setups and practices. Think of this for a start: the tanks should line up with the side of your body. If someone is showing you how to do it with the tanks in front of you, then, by golly, you aren't learning sidemount, and you need someone else to show you the way.

Case in point: my first sidemount dive after the course - that wasn't much of a course....

 

[victorzamora]

That's proof that the cert doesn't matter. A good course, good training, good mentorship, or a good understanding of target conditions and plenty of time to get there alone. THAT is required. And after that, maintaining it requires continuously understanding the target conditions. Kafkaland's picture is PERFECT proof of someone that got cheated out of money.

 

[Omisson]

Would you like me to send you the terms and conditions for travel, along with a complete booking package outlining commissions and free spots?



What Kevin said. It isn't a matter of trust, it has to do with room on the boat. Yes, you would be welcome with your LP130 and a 40 pony. If you used your 40 pony, we would consider you to be in an out of air situation, and act accordingly. You are welcome, however, to use the 15 foot "down regulator" we provide in exactly that situation. In fact, when we hear the regulator flowing gas, we will send a DM in the water immediately with a slung 80 to assist you if needed.

Then we will discuss your gas management, why you blew through 130 cubic feet of gas when everyone else made the same dive on an 80, and we'll spend the next few dives with me explaining the theory of proper gas management in a location 100 miles from the nearest help, and 200 miles from the nearest rescue helicopter, and 250 miles from the nearest guaranteed open chamber. This will take us a few dives minimum, when you could be looking at the pretty fishes to complete this upgrade to your knowledge.

Why do folks want the opportunity to circumvent safe diving rules in remote locations? I guarantee that, with 5 dives a day, you will be limited on either bottom time or your O2 clock sometime on day 2 or 3.

You would also be welcome to sidemount that 120 with a 40 (or other) pony. You will only get a single tank station, however. Your second cylinder (pony, whatever you want to call it) will have to go under your bench, where your dive gear would otherwise go.

And last but not least, it is silly for an operator to require a sidemount (or any other configuration) card. I have seen with my own eyes the results of taking sodemount training with Doppler, however. Doppler's students are rigged neatly, are trim in the water, and when they stand up they don't look like a used scuba flea market. Others, the folks who learn on their own, tweaking and adjusting and messing around by themselves in some quarry somewhere look like they covered themselves in Velcro and had someone throw their extra scuba gear on. They clump down the boat, banging and thrashing the whole way, with the butt of their cylinders swinging into other divers, making them very popular. Doppler's students stand up, their crap falls into place, they jump off the boat with no fuss or clanging, and go diving. So, at the end of the day, you don't need a certification, but training is very valuable.

Frank,

But could I "recreationally dive" in sidemount on LP50s? They take up less room and are just slightly larger each than a 40 pony?

Dan

 

[Wookie]

Frank,

But could I "recreationally dive" in sidemount on LP50s? They take up less room and are just slightly larger each than a 40 pony?

Dan

Our tank racks are set up for one cylinder. I know it's hard to believe that we are limited in space on a 40 foot back deck, but if everyone brought 2 cylinders, space would be at a premium, and the complaining starts when one guy moves someone else's pony because it is encroaching on the first guys space, and then one guy is diving a single and he gets bent out of shape because all of the doubles guys......

It's just easier to have a policy, so we do. On recreational trips, we cater to the Least Common Denominator diver. It works well for us. Yes, we may not be the boat for everyone, and we fully understand that. We don't cater to strict vegans or strict kosher, either.

in my opinion, there is no advantage of diving a hundred and a pony over sidemount 50s on a Caribbean liveaboard, and there are many disadvantages for the operator.

you may be the perfect customer for a tech lite trip, where you may dive any gear configuration you want, as we limit the number of people. Everyone gets enough space on those trips to spread out and have 2 or 3 cylinders. You may dive recreationally if you like, or use your AN/DP skills and take an advanced wreck course. ScubaBoard is sponsoring one in late July.

 

[Omisson]

Our tank racks are set up for one cylinder. I know it's hard to believe that we are limited in space on a 40 foot back deck, but if everyone brought 2 cylinders, space would be at a premium, and the complaining starts when one guy moves someone else's pony because it is encroaching on the first guys space, and then one guy is diving a single and he gets bent out of shape because all of the doubles guys......

It's just easier to have a policy, so we do. On recreational trips, we cater to the Least Common Denominator diver. It works well for us. Yes, we may not be the boat for everyone, and we fully understand that. We don't cater to strict vegans or strict kosher, either.

in my opinion, there is no advantage of diving a hundred and a pony over sidemount 50s on a Caribbean liveaboard, and there are many disadvantages for the operator.

you may be the perfect customer for a tech lite trip, where you may dive any gear configuration you want, as we limit the number of people. Everyone gets enough space on those trips to spread out and have 2 or 3 cylinders. You may dive recreationally if you like, or use your AN/DP skills and take an advanced wreck course. ScubaBoard is sponsoring one in late July.

On the recreational side I still think two LPs 50s properly stow in a LP120 spaced cylinder rack. Certainly less space than a single LP120 and a 40 pony - When I dive tec it's LP85s or 95s. Depending on depth/duration.

But again I'm a big fan of "its your boat - your rules" so of course when in Rome.

 

[Patoux01]

To me, it depends.

- It depends how "smartass" you try to be. If you think you know everything, you're doomed, go for a class.
- it depends how confident you are in your skills in case something should go wrong while learning on your own (or with a buddy that is clueless about what you do)
- it depends if you will persevere or not once you have done 3 dives truly destroying your back only to realise your setup was ****.
- it depends if you're willing of not to take the 20+ hours it would take to read and find info about how to setup and use your rig.

I didn't go through a class. I did go through the smartass bit, I was confident enough (there's no big difference, an inflator is still an inflator and a tank still has air), since I had no other gear I had to keep going (did consider selling it at some point), and god did my back hurt after some of the dives.
I was lucky enough to have an instructor put a pretty good "video course" online (for ~150-200$) that helped me out a lot, and a few others that gave some pretty good feedback to the few pictures I put online. In less than 15 dives, my setup was about right. There's no need to buy those videos ofc, the info is here on the internet as well. It's just so much easier to use those videos than to try to understand what someone meant with written words.


Lots of instructors simply jumped on the hype train anyway, so in my area I wouldn't even bother taking a sidemount class. If you have access to good instructors, it's worth the money (it also saves you time). Or do it by yourself, and then do a 1-day training with them to help you fix the small issues that you might have missed.