Double bladder for a Halcyon back plate/harness??

[Standingbear56]

As for the double bladders, I've used them. Frankly they area nightmare. I used the double Dive Rite for cave class since I did it wet. I'll NEVER do that again.

Why were they a nightmare? I've used OMS double bladder BCD's and haven't had a problem with them. What did you experience?

When I had to use double steels and dive wet, I used two wings. I didn't care for it much, but it was better than the double bladder. It didn't screw with my muscle memory as to where to find the inflator and the OPV.

With the OMS bladder, I was able to have both the primary and secondary LPI on my left. No muscle memory screw up to worry about. If there is a concern that the secondary LPI could leak, leave it unattached.

No flames here, just actual dive experience with different solutions. But I still say dive the right tanks and this won't be an issue. Double bladders, or two wings is a kluge and it might get you bent, hurt, or killed if things do go well.[/QUOTE]

Trust me, no flames from me either. I was just wondering about what experiences you have which lead to your opinions? In PADI DSAT Tec, it is strongly suggested that a diver use a dual bladder unit if diving steel doubles, especially if using deco or stage bottles. A lift bag, while a good back up, may not be deployable in tight quarters such as in a wreck or in some tight cave passages. In those cases a 2nd bladder may prove invaluable.

Safe Diving,
George

 

[nereas]

Halcyon does NOT make a double bladder "doubles" wing because (i have been told) they believe when diving doubles, one's drysuit is the single-bladder-BCD's redundancy. However, what is your option if you're diving in a wetsuit? You have no secondary inflation capability should the inflator fail in a single bladder type BCD. I dive a 7mil Henderson Instadry and it's plenty warm enough for me. My Tec instructor wants me to get a double bladder BCD wing. Since Halcyon doesnt make one, will ANY OTHER BRAND of double bladder fit onto my Halcyon backplate and harness? (I really hate the idea of having to invest in a completly new setup. I'd rather buy a different brand of double bladder and bolt it onto my Halcyon rig. Can I??)

OXYCHEQ makes double-bladder wings. And these fit nicely onto any backplate, between the plate and the twin tanks.

But ultimately, you are going to want a drysuit, because hang time during deco will freeze you out.

 

[nereas]

I'd go with the lift bag, cheapest/'easiest/best soulution unless your in overhead. People will say that you could drop to the bottom before you could deploy a lift bag but for that to happen you'd have to be WAY over weighted anyway and have a really bad failure as in exploding BC.

You would (not could) drop into the abyss long before you could deploy a lift bag. Then RIP.

This "lift bag" notion is one of the many GUE-DIR myths. GI3 must have thought of this idea during one of his many binges, and then indoctrinated his many lemmings with it.

Lift bags are designed to lift things off the bottom, after they have reached the bottom first.

 

[PerroneFord]

Why were they a nightmare? I've used OMS double bladder BCD's and haven't had a problem with them. What did you experience?

I felt the shape of the wing balanced me poorly with my LP108s. I felt that the inflator hoses on both sides was incredibly confusing and sub-optimal.

With the OMS bladder, I was able to have both the primary and secondary LPI on my left. No muscle memory screw up to worry about. If there is a concern that the secondary LPI could leak, leave it unattached.

I left mine unattached... but then, not having it attached means I will lose buoyancy until I can get it connected. I practiced it in class... it was a PITA.

Trust me, no flames from me either. I was just wondering about what experiences you have which lead to your opinions? In PADI DSAT Tec, it is strongly suggested that a diver use a dual bladder unit if diving steel doubles, especially if using deco or stage bottles. A lift bag, while a good back up, may not be deployable in tight quarters such as in a wreck or in some tight cave passages. In those cases a 2nd bladder may prove invaluable.

Frankly, this is why I choose to avoid PADI and DSAT, etc. The correct answer is to dive a rig that is balanced. Not to compensate for a bad rig with more gear. If the dive is so big that you need big doubles and stages, then put a drysuit on because you're going to be doing deco. Or dive a thick wetsut and aluminum tanks with ditchable weight.

Again, this is just my opinion having tried it both ways.

 

[nereas]

... Or dive a thick wetsut and aluminum tanks with ditchable weight...

I have seen people do these dives with thick wetsuits on, and after the deco when they are back on the boat they shiver ceaslessly for a long time. Therefore I highly recommend a drysuit instead.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/3849366-post41.html

 

[Splitlip]

"Wetsuit the accepted phylosophy is that with double ALUMINUM cylinders you should be able t swim your rig."

No, that is the accepted DIR answer, others dive steels while wet. Double 80s is only 160 cuft, double 120s is like having a 3rd 80 in the mix. -J

I am not DIR and get flamed regularly for posting non DIR responses. LOL

I have no issues with dual bladders or doubled up wings. Those in disagreement say that a 2nd inflator may be filling the 2nd bladder without the diver knowing it. Disconnect it if not needed then.

I thought the OP's concern was diving doubles wet without a drysuit or redundent bladder.

I stand by my statement though.

 

[mos11b1p]

I sincerely appreciate all the input.

 

[JayJudge]

The Dive Rite I have used had one on each side, I just put the unused one on a bungee to the right side of my harness. And, maybe you won't freeze like some people have stated, but- as your body cools down, it starts to slow blood flow to you, thereby slowing removal of nitrogen. As for me, anything colder than 70, I dive damp, I mean dry. It gives me a redundant (if PITA) way of bouyancy, and, I can stink out my friends when they unzip me Alternative drysuit inflation....But, if you have to have a dual bladder- try a place that has them in rental, borrow a friends, etc. Some work great for 100s and terrible for 120s/108s. I use a Classic Wing for my 120s-Faber 3442s. I tried using it on my wife's 100s, I hated it. She uses a Wreck wing. My buddy uses a OMS wing-loves it. I even have a buddy that would send shivers to the core of the GI3 crowd- a true bungeed wing.......What works safely for you is always best, and take the time to find that solution. You will be much happier than just having bought what you heard of first.
-J

 

[JayJudge]

If I need more gas, I can either add an AL80 stage when diving wet with double 80s or dive steels dry with minimal thermal garments in warm water. No big deal either way.

Sorry to do 2 posts so fast, I just reread this...
So- you think it better to add another bottle into the mix. And at 120ft , when you need that extra gas because something went horribly wrong you hope that you grab the right 80...not the one with travel mix, and not the one with 100% Am I the only one that sees a flaw in this theory. Its not that you can't train to grab the right one, its just why complicate things like that? Its called back gas, not slung gas.....Sorry, not to rant, just please explain the logic here.
-J

 

[Standingbear56]

I felt the shape of the wing balanced me poorly with my LP108s. I felt that the inflator hoses on both sides was incredibly confusing and sub-optimal.



I left mine unattached... but then, not having it attached means I will lose buoyancy until I can get it connected. I practiced it in class... it was a PITA.



Frankly, this is why I choose to avoid PADI and DSAT, etc. The correct answer is to dive a rig that is balanced. Not to compensate for a bad rig with more gear. If the dive is so big that you need big doubles and stages, then put a drysuit on because you're going to be doing deco. Or dive a thick wetsut and aluminum tanks with ditchable weight.

Again, this is just my opinion having tried it both ways.

Just goes to show how 2 different people have 2 totally different experiences, both 100% valid. This is why I always say to "try before you buy". What works for one may or mat not work for another.
Safe Diving,
George