Dry Back-Inflate BC?

[Jonathan]

I prefer wings but for DM'ing I tend to use my Scubapro Glide 2000 - mainly because of the overweighting observation, you need somewhere to put the damn stuff and those pockets come in useful....

Also it appears that some shops require you to use gear they sell and hopefully sell it to you at cost.

Fortunately to date I have done any work through the shop where I baught all my gear so no probs...

Jonathan

 

[Zept]

superhelix said...
Please comment if you can on the following ASSUMPTIONS:

a) the back-inflate is superior in comfort and agility to vest BCs

b) it is ok to buy a BC without getting it wet as long as you do lots and lots of homework and preferably try it on in your LDS

c) it is important that a divemaster wear the gear his students do

a) Can't really add anything to Grant's comments.

b) If you buy out here (in SE Asia), you may not have a choice about this. You might be able to find a dive shop that will rent you similar models, but I doubt anyone will let you take a new BC into the water. Definitely try the BC on, though -- sizes and fit vary a lot between brands.

c) When I was a student, I had no idea what brand of BC my instructor was wearing, let alone what type it was. I had other things on my mind... not drowning, for example.

On Koh Tao you'll mostly be working with vacation divers. Some will have their own gear and many will rent, but relatively few people will be looking to buy, so I don't think there'll be the same emphasis on gear sales that there is in the US. Check with the shop you're working for, though, just in case they have a policy on this.

Hope that helps,


Zept

 

[sheck33]

The weighing of students should be done prior to them doing the dives. There is no reason for a DM or AI to be overweighed because the LDS didnt bother to do the students weighing.
I have seen an instructor take weight from a DM, who was weighed properly, to put on a student who wasnt, the DM after that had the hardest time staying down after the weight was taken from him, that is not acceptable. I took out two newly certified students recently, i was wearing doubles and i walked up the beach and back to get more weight for one of them rather then take weight of my setup, which by the way i cant do in any case as i have no moveable/ditchable weight.
I'll help any way i can but i will not jeopardize my safety if i dont have to.

 

[Seala]

Superhelix

I’m not am authority on bc’s or wings by any means but I find the best way to introduce new students to options and open a line of communication is to show them the alternatives to standard equipment. I am not DIR but would have liked to see a bp/wing setup while in training. In fact the first time I heard about them was on this forum. Students try to emulate what they see so you should buy what gives you the best trim not what the students as using. I ended up buying a Libra a few weeks ago but would have loved to try a bp/wing set up because I had a hard fitting large boobs short waist and every bc I tried on had 3-4 inches of extra shoulder strap. I know, take the last statement to the women only treads. In my limited experience buy what there’re not wearing show them the alternatives!

 

[Waterlover]

IMO Buy the Scubapro...it has a great name and looks good.......

 

[GrantInOz]

sheck33 once bubbled...
The weighing of students should be done prior to them doing the dives. There is no reason for a DM or AI to be overweighed because the LDS didnt bother to do the students weighing.
I have seen an instructor take weight from a DM, who was weighed properly, to put on a student who wasnt, the DM after that had the hardest time staying down after the weight was taken from him, that is not acceptable. I took out two newly certified students recently, i was wearing doubles and i walked up the beach and back to get more weight for one of them rather then take weight of my setup, which by the way i cant do in any case as i have no moveable/ditchable weight.
I'll help any way i can but i will not jeopardize my safety if i dont have to.

sheck33,

While I agree with you, it doesn't always work this way in practise...

With students, there is a difference between weighting them properly in the bay for their first dive and when they go out into the middle of the ocean to dive sail rock or champon pinnacle... There will be a swell, there will be current (often reasonably strong) and you are miles from land! Students will breath deeper and at the top of their lungs (whether they are relaxed and confident in their instructor or not) which will make them more bouyant...

Please don't take this as an advert for overweighting a student to start with (I definitely DO NOT subscribe to that theory), it is just that it does happen and it is worth being prepared.

Also, with backpackers ("day trippers" ) you often do not get a chance to weight them correctly before they get in the ocean - and with a current running, you want them up the mermaid line and at the anchor reasonable quickly. (Swimming against a strong surface current will also cause people to breath more deeply and can cause bouyancy issues)

I am in no way suggesting that a proper weighting check should not be done, but I have worked long enough in the tropics to realise that the type of diving there does not always allow you to "walk up the beach" to get more weight.

I am sure I'll get flamed for this, but sometimes you just have to have contigency in place when you are "looking after" unknown divers - and I personally felt the risk of carrying an additional 2 - 3 lbs (attached by piston clip to my lower left D-ring) was worth not having someone in my care drifing around in a full-moon current.

Let the flaming begin!

Grant

 

[Zept]

sheck33 said...
The weighing of students should be done prior to them doing the dives. There is no reason for a DM or AI to be overweighed because the LDS didnt bother to do the students weighing.

Weighting problems also arise with vacation divers who arrive from cold countries, where they've worn thick neoprene wetsuits, hire a 3mm shortie, and have no idea how much weight they'll need. The problem is compounded with fresh-water divers who forget that they'll be more buoyant in salt water. On guided dives, it's common for the DM to carry a couple of extra weights so they can deal with the floaty people.

Zept

 

[sheck33]

no flaming 2 - 3 lb is one thing but 6 - 10 another, i agree, it is not always possible/practical to do it the way i described, maybe i am too much of an idealist

 

[superhelix]

Guys,

I woke up this morning and imagine my joy at reading your plethora of posts - I appreciate it!

So... I think that the back-inflate purchase decision is rather uncontroversial based on these posts, and thus let's consider that done.

Regarding whether it is ok to buy before getting it wet, it seems somewhat acceptable, but not preferable. Unfortunately, in Prague there are no dive shops with pools, and I take to heart the fact that I will not want to dive my new BC in chlorine ANYWAY, so even if the dive shop doesn't like my rig, I would probably like to borrow one from them for pool stuff anyway, or protest and find another dive shop! Thus, I am able to justify buying the BC before getting it wet, and before I get to Koh Tao (I can get much better prices online anyway I am sure).

BUT..... there is still one last issue to be resolved:

Can you recommend a solid back-inflate BC that is:

a) not too big so that I can travel with it
b) not so heavy where in return for providing more lift it is cumbersome to wear in the salt water tropics
c) priced less than $600

Again, I will be using it for I hope at least 200 dives over the next six months in Southeast Asia, mostly Thailand, as I get Divemaster certified and perhaps continue on with IDC.

I also will be using my APEKS ATX200 new reg, along with my 3mm shorty, Mares AvantiTre fins, and Tuva Splendive IV mask.

I don't plan to get into TECH too much over this time but I would like to get certified for nitrox and rebreathers.

I already indicated that the Raider and the Ranger look like solid choices...

Finally, I will do an extensive review of the jacket I buy for the boards from Thailand when I get there.

Thanks!

 

[superhelix]

PS...

I just went down to the LDS and tried on both the Raider and the Pro QD...

The Raider seems like an amazing BC. It is well contructed, seems to provide a lot of mobility, fits comfortably, and is massively adjustable. However, it was AMAZINGLY HEAVY!

The Pro QD, while a vest BC, also looks great, feels great, and is considerably lighter than the Raider.

I feel like I can trust the SeaQuest brand.

But I am a newbie who is simply observing these two jackets on land. Is is stupid to consider buying the Raider if I am not planning on doing much tech diving, and if I need to haul this BC halfway around the world?

The back-inflates still seem much more comfortable and provide more ease of movement - are there lighter, yet still super high quality BCs on the market with back-inflate systems?

PS - the Raider is almost twice as much as the Pro QD at the LDS, although I have seen it for as low as $500 USD on LP.