Drysuit for Tec diving

[beester]

@Doppler : Good to know... and this front entry wasn't just because you know the owner and got a special order ;-) I'm honestly interested. Yes you are totally right about compromise and making choices. There are some prerequisits that a suit needs to have for my kind of diving (dump valve position, pocket position, no tizip (too much issues with it), no welly kind of boots) but next to that all suits have advantages and disadvantages.

To Remy (and to extend AJ)
I've owned 4 drysuits (scubapro neoprene suit, dui CF200 se (crushed neoprene back entry), santi emotion (trila front entry) and dui flx extreme (trila front entry)... which is not a lot but more than most drysuit divers. Problem with drysuits is that it's a big ticket item... it costs a lot of money, so most don't have a lot of experience with different styles, models, materials and brands.... so automatically assume that theirs is best or whatever their instructor recommends must be best. What else to go on right? It's a basic catch 22... you want something which meets your needs but you don't have a drysuit so you don't know your needs.

Then you get people bying second hand bad fitting suits and start complaining, stating they hope temperature goes up soon so they can get out of this hellish contraption and start diving wet again. Others buy a expensive suit and are convinced that it's the best suit in the world why you can see from 3 miles away that it's not a good suit and makes live quite hard for them.

How to stop this:

- Identify your goals. Travelling a lot? Weight is an issue? Doing a lot of shore entries, make sure you have rockboots or other sturdy boots. Diving in a wide range of temperatures... don't take neoprene, but trilam so you can match the undergarment to the water temp, doing a lot of wreckcleaning dives... take a sturdy material...etc
- Take someone experienced with you when you go and fit suits.. they will tell you if it fits. A good fit (specifically in the length) is very important.
- Try out different styles and models.
- Watch your peers... if a lot of experienced GUE divers are diving DUI TLS350s then probably this matches their needs and if you want to go in that direction it makes sense to buy such a suit or a clone of it. Luckily there are so many brands out today that have that same style of suit (dui, santi, bare, fourth element, ursuit, artic, etc, etc)... that it's easier to chose.

PS: I did fundies in 2009 with a tech rating on first try. What did I dive? A backentry neoprene suit.

 

[Centrals]

If the OP want's to go tech I would advise against a neoprene dry suit. Otherwise neoprene is fine.

This is a very interesting statement.

 

[AJ]

Not trying to be a bitch here but when you advise against neoprene is that based on personal experience or something you've been told by "rec instructors (non-GUE), who are technical divers?"

Both, I have questioned several divers/instructors (rec and tech) diving tri-lam and diving neoprene. I made a wishlist based their opinions and my future demands. I then made a thorough study of dry suits available around here. I looked at several suits at that time, for instance Bare neoprene suit, Arctic and Procean tri-lam suits. They did not feel right for me (not saying they're not any good, just did not feel right for me). Did I dive them? No, it's not that easy to test dive suits when you have no experience with dry-suits, especially in winter time while in a hurry getting the suit. I chose my current Santi E-Lite because it felt to me the right suit and it still does. I made a choice based on my own judgement and advise from other divers including my instructors who I trust. I still stand by my judgement after my GUE Fundamentals traing by the way. Santi E-Lite was and is the right suit for me and at all my needs.

To be clear, I'am not advising against neoprene suits if that is what you might think? I'am just saying to look to the future and try to see what your diving demands will be in a few years. A dry suit is an expensive piece of equipment that should give you pleasure for many years to come. Don't let your dry suit stop you from the diving you want to do because of restraints right now. I agree totally with Beester. You will know when you find the right suit, but you first need to know what you expect of the suit. Help from experienced divers doing the dives you want to do, helps getting a clear picture of your wishlist. So ask them but judge for yourself.

 

[Doppler]

If you're talking about a 1 or 2mm drysuit (cf200, sf-tech, ...), then yeah, fair enough, they don't have that main issue of compression (edit: Probably don't have the other issues I mentionned as well). On a 4mm suit, I'm not sure so I wouldn't say they can't be used.

Yes, I am... FYI I have a 1-100 OThree and a 2-100 hybrid custom OThree.

And the reason I mention it is that in a public forum that's main purpose is to inform, I dislike reading blanket statements that misinform. The posting, not yours, that neoprene and tech diving somehow don't mix is simply misinformed... Lot's of good suits... not all selling to the yank market.

 

[Patoux01]

I honestly don't care what suit people own or dive (except if they're supposed to be my teammates)... I simply meant that there is "neoprene" and "neoprene" suits, and when people advocate against neoprene, they (usually) mean the 7mm ones, not the 1mm ones.

 

[Remy B.]

To not open another thread.

What is your experience with the neck seals, do you prefer Latex, Silicon or Neoprene ?

Metal or Plastic zippers, I'm a little afraid of the plastic ones but some say there is nothing to worry about.

 

[toby43]

Do the job if you have the tools

A drysuit is the preferred means of redundancy but there are others. Depends on you and your skills/experience/comfort zone.

I'm not a fan of scubapro drysuits or some Bare suits for that matter. If budget is the big factor (usually is), keep an eye on the board or the scuba swap Facebook page. Lots of deals. Be thorough if you find one (lots of pictures etc) due to your location. For warm-water
I love my whites fusion, I switch the bullet skin to the thinner,lighter tech skin and light undergarment and I'm groovy.

I went for a Whites, now branded Apeks, very happy with it once i got familiar with it. I bought the tech skin too. Great benefit of Whites is that for off the peg suit the inner suit fits a very wide range of body size and shape. You then just need the get the outer skin size right which is straightforward. This makes them good if you buy second hand. A new outer skin is inexpensive about 200 ish
dollars i believe. Never had a leak(silicon seals).

 

[beester]

Heya Remy, Seals are a bit personal preference:

Neoprene = warmer, more sturdy (but will stretch after a while), more difficult to put on (you have to turn it inside out), depending on you might leak easier
Latex= Easy to put on, no stretching but quite fragile, not that easy to leak, will wear out after a while (specifically when getting in touch with ozone, light). Some people are allergic to latex so can only use neoprene or now sillicone.
Silicone= New technology.. does not wear down, but quite fragile. Cannot be glued to a suit so needs to be attached in a different way (think dui zipseal like).

On the zippers I can be quite clear. I've had a santi emotion with T-zip (plastic) zipper. You need to grease the closing end of the zipper from time to time or it will slide open very slightly and will leak. Next almost no maintenance. I was one of the early adopters (had an emotion I think in september 2012). Zip started leaking after about 150 dives, very slightly not on the end but in the middle between teeth. Finally got it replaced at about 210 dives. New Ti-zip started leaking after 40 dives... Compare that with my DUI CF200 which is still on it's first YKK metal zip after 400 dives. so my personal experience with Ti-zip is not that good.

I understand that YKK-BDM are also producing a plastic zipper as wel, but no experience with it. For now I'll take the disadvantages of metal zips (bit of maintenance and not as flexible) vs a leaking zip. In the end zipper replacements are a big ticket change on a suit.

 

[vixtor]

I own a Scubapro drysuit since 2009. It is the predecessor of the current Evertec (I forgot whether it was called also Evertec or not). Mine is that heavy version with cordura external layer. It is heavy and not very flexible, but very very rugged. It has seen a few hundreds of dives in difficult conditions in the Black sea. All wrecks here are covered in mussels that cut everything. It has resisted without any issue until now, neither rusted steel or mussels affected it. And it went through lots of cramped spaces, in 0 vis. Most of the time it's not black anymore, it's rather brown from rust, oil and silt. Shore dives mean entering between rocks with lots of mussels, sometimes in big waves. Also not the friendliest environment.

The latex cuffs were changed three times. No issue with the zipper until now. Only the exhaust valve had a leak issue because the rubber on which it is screwed got unglued from the cordura layer.

I would recommend it.

As for the current Evertec LT, the owner of the divecenter I usually go had two until now. The first one, bought exactly when they have launched it, had some issues with the plastic zipper (my old version has the metalic one). It replaced the suit and the other one held well. It doesn't look as rugged as mine, but it never got a cut or leak in it also. The only important thing with plastic zippers seem to be that you need to close it very tight to the end. He is definitely more mobile in it than I am in mine, so I would probably have it on my short list if I would need a new one.

I am sure there are better suits in terms of fit/comfort if you afford the price, but I was never sorry to buy this one.

 

[kensuf]

To not open another thread.

What is your experience with the neck seals, do you prefer Latex, Silicon or Neoprene ?

Metal or Plastic zippers, I'm a little afraid of the plastic ones but some say there is nothing to worry about.

Properly glued in latex seals all the way, but I hate the zip seal / o-ring seal system that you need for silicon seals.

On the zipper, I've had both metal and Tyvek (plastic). I've had problems with both when I do not treat them with care, but I've had them both work flawlessly when properly maintained. The problem most people run into with the Tyvek is that they are uber sensitive to dirt/grit/etc in the teeth -- those things need to be clean. Regular metal zippers work well when properly lubed with wax (I just use cheap parafin / canning wax), but you need silicone spray for the Tyvek (wax will cause it to leak).