Drysuit trouble...

[NJ Wreckster]

Well, to my way of thinking, if you need any more than a nice, comfortable, warming layer of air in your drysuit, you are overweighted. The volume of this layer must be kept constant at all depths by venting air in and out of the drysuit. Avoiding using the BC/wing for bouyancy control is strongly advised by D.U.I. and Viking as well as the agencies, but hey what do they know.

I can agree with the argument that a little more in the BC/wing at the beginning of a double heavy steel tank dive would be a good idea as long as you remember to vent it during the dive. Excessive task loading is the culprit when it comes to employing the bc/wing as a bouyancy control device in conjuction with the drysuit. If you learn to use just your drysuit for bouyancy control, your life will be a lot simpler.

As far as air migrating to the legs, I never let my legs get higher than my upper body. I personally like the gator wraps although that is uncommon up here. I don't use ankle weights as they impede kicking. However others here like them for trim.

I just use the wing for floating on the surface or in an emergency, i.e., flooded drysuit.

 

[EMT Scuba]

I just used my new dry suit for the first time yesterday. my friend had been renting one and told me she hated it... she couldn't use her arms and she also got the inverted feet. So I had an inkling of what to expect.

I'm in the DiveMaster Course and we are receiving dry suit cert also.

Instructor made me do a bouyancy check with a low tank and 10pounds added to what I normally dive.
He made me purposefully get inverted and repeat the tuck and roll about 3 times until I felt comfortable with it.
He made me react to my valve getting stuck while adding air, we also went over what to do in an emergency if I couldn't vent quickly enough (neck seal)

I felt a bit 'odd' at first with the squeeze and had some bouyancy issues, but got used to the suit and how it was different. I still need more practice/dives with it of course... but I think I did indeed get good instruction through NAUI and my instructor.

Perhaps the guy who started this thread didn't receive proper instruction.. or a good instructor.

 

[SlowRain]

In the end this is what I would term as being a "discreanary" skill. If you want to use the suit to control buoyancy...have at it. If you want to use the BC...do it that way. TSM has it right...there is no "right way" and there are pros and cons to each. I have done it "both ways" as a result of doing trimix where you are required to either have a dual bladder wing or a wing and drysuit. Either way you have to demonstrate control with one in the event of failure of the other, including ascent. Personally I found buoyancy control with the drysuit to be a pain in the :mooner:. Maybe that is just me.

I personally use my wing as that is the way I learned. I don't consider it "excessive task loading" simply because I am used to operating my drysuit with enough air to make it comfortable and using the wing. Just because the equipment manufacture or even the "agencies" preach a current dogma does not necessarily make it something akin to Moses coming off the mountain. After all...we used to teach Martini's law and a 60 feet per minute ascent rate. Things change.

There are rules in this sport that are involitile, i.e. don't hold your breath when you ascend. There are also rules in this sport which are not, i.e. do I use my drysuit to control my buoyancy. Do what works for you...what is comfortable for you...and what is safe for you. In a perfect world probably should be able to do both.

 

[HBDiveGirl]

Avoiding using the BC/wing for bouyancy control is strongly advised by D.U.I. and Viking as well as the agencies, but hey what do they know.

False. "...the agencies..." do not have a uniform protocol. Two of my certification cards are from internationally respected agencies that teach three tenets of drysuit control:

1. Correct weighting. Confirmed by ability to consistently hold a stop at 10-15 feet with only 500 psi in the tank(s), and the wing empty while the drysuit has just enough gas to prevent excessive squeeze that would unsafely restrict diver range of motion.
2. Inflation/deflation of the drysuit to maintain only enough gas to "loft the undergarments" and prevent excessive squeeze.
3. Inflation/deflation of the wing for additional buoyancy as needed after #2 is accomplished.

I'm a relatively small diver with relatively heavy gear. At the beginning of deeper dives, with a full hp130 (or double steel lp80s) and a balanced rig, when my suit is adequately inflated (see #2 above)... I still don't displace as much water as a 250lb diver.
I may need additional buoyancy to remain neutrally buoyant. I use my wing rather than over-inflating my drysuit. I vent them both on ascent, following #2 above.

Excessive task loading is the culprit when it comes to employing the bc/wing as a bouyancy control device in conjuction with the drysuit. If you learn to use just your drysuit for bouyancy control, your life will be a lot simpler.

Perhaps for an absolute beginner diver. After a new diver has learned to maintain neutral buoyancy on multi-level dives, I would hope he/she would continue to improve skills. Personally, unless a diver has a disability that negates this, I would worry about the competency of any drysuit diver who could not manage both the drysuit and wing air-spaces. If managing a wing and a drysuit creates "excessive taskloading", then perhaps scuba-diving is not the best choice for a hobby.

As far as air migrating to the legs, I never let my legs get higher than my upper body.

I prefer to learn full control of my drysuit, so that I may dive in any position needed for the activity at hand. It's easy to do a complete headstand underwater when I want to or need to, and can I right myself smoothly when needed. This means I get to have more fun.

I maintain that each diver has unique attributes and needs, and that there is no single right answer for managing a drysuit. There are many options, and the wise diver will learn and then experiment safely to decide which options are most effective for her/him.

Not everyone can do hundreds of dives a year. But there truly is no short cut to experience.

~~~~
Claudette

 

[EMT Scuba]

Hey,
Thanks for posting the during/after scenarios! found this very helpful

 

[NJ Wreckster]

OK, I would agree that if you can't get any more weight off and still are overweighted, i.e., small person/heavy steel tanks, then certainly, one can put a little air in the BC. Perhaps it is too strong to claim the BCD should "never" be used for bouyancy control.

I guess that up here, we are often on a wreck and prefer to be a little overweighted (to stay down while working). For example, if one is hammering on a chisel or using a prybar, the additional weighting keeps you down. It's just a lot easier.

When I refer to excessive task loading, I am talking about when one is busy on the wreck trying to concentrate at depth on completing a number of operations in a limited amount of time, one must take this additional task loading into consideration--especially if one needs to resolve some unrelated problem. We're not just looking at coral up here.

When I say I never raise my legs, it's just a safety precaution in case I have a little too much air in my drysuit. It's rare but can happen. If I was making sure the exact minimal perfect volume of air was in the drysuit, certainly raising one's feet wouldn't cause an inversion. But then again, I am not interested in underwater acrobatics. If you have more fun doing headstands underwater, have at it.

I don't know how many dives you've had. I don't even know how many dives I've had. But it is too late for you to suggest that scuba diving is not the best choice of a hobby for me. I got certified over 30 years ago, when they first invented the single hose regulator, and I've completely worn out one cf200 drysuit, if that's possible.

 

[LG Diver]

I still don't follow your argument. By your own admission, you're overweighted and intentionally negative while on the wreck so you're not adjusting your buoyancy while on the bottom performing all these other tasks. The only time you'd really be actively managing gas in the DS/wing is on descent and ascent. After 30 years of diving, this is still too much task loading for you?

 

[Gil57usa]

+1. It sounds like it might not have been venting at all. I always check the dump valve before entering the water. It's good practice and it also ensures that it operates freely.

Shane

Sounds to me like you were using the Drysuit for bouyancy control. I dive a DUI TLS350. I only put enough air in the suit to take the squeeze off. I use my wing for bouyancy control.

 

[RJP]

I still don't follow your argument. By your own admission, you're overweighted and intentionally negative while on the wreck so you're not adjusting your buoyancy while on the bottom performing all these other tasks.

Maybe he meant that he uses his drysuit for poor bouyancy control?

 

[HBDiveGirl]

OK, I would agree that if you can't get any more weight off and still are overweighted, i.e., small person/heavy steel tanks, then certainly, one can put a little air in the BC. Perhaps it is too strong to claim the BCD should "never" be used for bouyancy control.

This is a great insight for me, NJ... honestly. It had never occurred to me until I found myself trying to explain it here in this thread.

• I'm not a big person.
• I don't displace as much water as bigger divers.
• I use some of the same heavy gear that many bigger divers use.
• I'm probably using my wing more than bigger divers.
• Bigger divers might achieve buoyancy with the drysuit only. Or they might add air to the wing as I do.
• Many different methods are taught. Experience teaches you what works for you.

It sounds so simple.. but I hadn't connected all the points until I focussed on responding to your confident assertion that the BC/wing should never be used for UW buoyancy control. Both of us were certainly tenacious in explaining our rationales and experiences. I love that.

It's great when discussions on these boards lead to actual insights. Thank you.

I guess that up here, we are often on a wreck and prefer to be a little overweighted (to stay down while working). For example, if one is hammering on a chisel or using a prybar, the additional weighting keeps you down. It's just a lot easier.

Great example of adapting technique to the purpose of your dive. All the wrecks I visit are recreational, and I'm careful to not change them. Very different from the work you do.

When I say I never raise my legs, it's just a safety precaution in case I have a little too much air in my drysuit. It's rare but can happen. If I was making sure the exact minimal perfect volume of air was in the drysuit, certainly raising one's feet wouldn't cause an inversion. But then again, I am not interested in underwater acrobatics. If you have more fun doing headstands underwater, have at it.

... and barrel rolls and Immelmanns and corkscrews and as much rollicking fun on a scooter as my inner ear can cope with. I do some "work" underwater when I lay transect lines and count/measure organisms as part of a Reef Check survey. Sometimes doing headstands is the best way to see under low rocks and be able to identify and count organisms living there. I got better at managing my drysuit when I needed to learn to do this smoothly and often.

I don't know how many dives you've had. I don't even know how many dives I've had. But it is too late for you to suggest that scuba diving is not the best choice of a hobby for me. I got certified over 30 years ago, when they first invented the single hose regulator, and I've completely worn out one cf200 drysuit, if that's possible.

I did not mean to suggest that you should not be diving, far from it. Only that learning to cope well with modest task-loading is not something to fear for most recreational divers. It can be a great learning experience to encourage correct prioritization, as long as it's done safely. I know I have more fun since I learned to task-load better.
I have so much more to learn.

I know this thread has been a great learning opportunity for the OP.. Beachdude is going to thrive in his drysuit and be exploring the SoCal waters for decades to come.

I've learned alot by being pressed to explain why what works for me... works.

Thanks, All!!

~~~~
Claudette