Dumping Air from Wings

[rickyd]

I always have a heck of a time finding the pull cord on the rear dump; TP-II. It's on a short cord with a ball attached. It may be floating, I'm not sure.

Any suggestions? I was thinking of extending the cord thru the small d-ring on the backpack, and towards the front left D-ring, but, I think this has it's problems also.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

grunzster once bubbled...
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If I lean forward and use the rear pull dump, even if the air is even in the wing, won't it throw my balance off, since there is only 1 dump on the left tip, but the air is split between the 2 tips of the bladder?

As long as you are close to horizontal the air should equalize from side to side on it's own. If not a little attitude adjustment to bring the front of the wing up a bit will resolve the problem.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

rickyd once bubbled...


Any suggestions? I was thinking of extending the cord thru the small d-ring on the backpack, and towards the front left D-ring, but, I think this has it's problems also.

I would not lenghten the cord or run it through any D-rings for any reason. This is far more likely to result in the dump getting opened accidentally or worse getting stuck open. The lenght between D-rings would not be fixed and the cord would be exposed and both will cause problems.

If the ball is floating around, shortening the cord a bit may help keep it closer to the dump valve where it can be easily found. Don't get it too short though or you will create what amounts to tilt vlave that will open anytime the ball is bumped. It needs some slack to avoid this problem. You can move the knot securing the ball up a bit closer ot the valve and if it causes problems you can restore it to it's original lenght.

Some larger wings when used with single tanks will float up rather high making it harder to find the dump valve.

 

[Charlie99]

rickyd once bubbled...
I always have a heck of a time finding the pull cord on the rear dump; TP-II. It's on a short cord with a ball attached. It may be floating, I'm not sure.

Any suggestions? I was thinking of extending the cord thru the small d-ring on the backpack, and towards the front left D-ring, but, I think this has it's problems also.

If it is like a typical dump valve, the easiest way to find it is to first put your hand on the dump valve itself, close your hand on the string, then move out to the ball or knot at the end of the string.

Extending the cord just makes it more likely to get caught on something, causing it to dump air when you don't want it to.

 

[rickyd]

Charlie and DA.
Kinda figured extended the cord is not a good idea. I think shortening the cord a bit will help. I can't feel anything through the 5mil gloves, so I'm pretty sure I'm loosing the cord, if I even are grabbing it. So, maybe tying the ball shorter, I'll feel the ball! Worth a try.

 

[Wendy]

grunzster once bubbled...
It's 40lb. Deep Outdoors wing.


Aren't they the same? Isn't the rear dump the pull dump that is on the one tip of the wing?

I guess I have try it on my next dive, but I still don't understand.

If I lean forward and use the rear pull dump, even if the air is even in the wing, won't it throw my balance off, since there is only 1 dump on the left tip, but the air is split between the 2 tips of the bladder?

A 40lb wing for a single tank sounds knida big to me. Not that it doesn't work, but I did that for a bot until I got my 27# wing and its much better.

The rear dump is not the pull dump that is part of the inflator hose. The rear dump is a small release valve on the bottom of the wing, usually has a small cord with or without a little ball on the end to pull to release air. The Halcyon wings don't even have a pull dump on the top of the wing and I replaced the one on my dive rite wing so it doesn't dump either. The only time I use the inflator to release air is at the surface, like Dr. Jay said.

 

[grouchyturtle]

After diving the BC all summer and fall, I think I'm going to go with Wendy's advice and get a smaller wing.

Just a few questions:

What size would you recommend, for a single tank?
Deep Outdoors does make a 34 lb bladder, designed to be used with a single, that I was considereing, but is that small enough? I mean that's only 6lbs less lift than what I have now, but it is a narrower wing.
Deep Outdoors 34lb bladder

Just today I saw a new bladder coming out from OMS, which looks really cool. It's 32lb, which is still 5 lbs. more than what you mentioned, but it's 8 lbs less than what I'm currently using, and it's really narrow and streamlined.
OMS 32lb bladder

Lastly on Deep Outdoor's site it says the 40 is designed to be used with a single or doubles. If you look at the picture you can see it is a lot wider than the 34. Should I hold onto it in case I ever do get doubles, is 40lb enough lift for doubles? Or am I better off getting rid of it if I get the smaller wing and going with something bigger if I ever go doubles?
Deep Outdoors 40lb bladder

 

[Wendy]

Ok from looking at those pictures I wouldn't get the wing from deep outdoors. That one on the bottom the 40# wing looks like it can be used for small doubles like double al80's, but you may run into the same problem as before with the wing being too big for single tank. In my experience its not a good idea to have a wing that can be used for both singles or doubles.

So if I had to pick between these I'd go with the OMS wing. Also similar to that wing is the Halcyon pioneer wing that comes in 27# and 36#. The Halcyon Eclipse wing that comes in 30# and 40#. ANd the Oxycheg wing 30# wing.

Just to ask, cuz I can't remember, what size tank are you using? How much weight do you use? tropical or cold water? exposure suit?

 

[docmartin]

i would not keep the 40# for doubles. with the kind of doubles diving you'll be doing around here (cold water, steel doubles) you should shoot for at least 50#.
as for the singles wing it's a tougher call. first of all, i am not sure that your problem is really a function of the amount of lift. it may be more of a design issue. when you read the thread on the new oxycheq wing people rave about the 40# wing and seem to have no trouble whatsoever dumping air. i also have no trouble with a pioneer 36# which is only 4# less than yours. therefore, design seems to be more important than just the lift specs.
now as far as lift, there are numerous threads on how much buoyancy you will need. i did a lot of research into it before getting my pioneer 36. i really would have liked the 27# which would be plenty in warm water but around here with heavy exposure protection, more weight, steel tank, pony bottle... the 27# would have been a very close call. i don't regret the decision and it has performed well around here as well as in warm water. from what i recall from our shore dive we wore the same amount of weight (20#). add to that the weight of the air at the beginning of your dive (~6#). at depth your wetsuit compresses and beyond 100 ft will provide only minimal buoyancy. this means your wing will have to keep you and your 26# load from sinking further than you want. that's very close to 27#. so in your place i would also go with the 36# pioneer if you wanted to go halcyon. also, the 40# oxycheq seems to be a good wing with allegedly no drawbacks over the 30#. i am not familiar with the deepoutdoors wings and besides the picture know nothing about the oms. the oms could be really attractive because lp will carry it which should make it very affordable. whatever you get i would make sure to get a continuous ring shaped bladder which helps to prevent trapped air.

 

[grouchyturtle]

Wendy, actually the 40 in that picture is the one I have now.

first of all, i am not sure that your problem is really a function of the amount of lift. it may be more of a design issue.

Martin thanks for pointing out the obvious to me. I didn't even think of that. Cold water = heavier exposure = more weight = 40 probably isn't really too much lift, at least not by much anyway. The real problem, as Wendy said is probably that it's designed to be used with doubles also, so it's a big old wide wing, therefore causes a lot of drag and the tips float up really high, when there's air in it. For having only a little less lift than mine, your wing is actually much smaller (narrower).

I had a few more pounds than you on that dive 2-4, but I dive an AL80 not a steel. That's including the backplate and tank adaptors as part of the weight, and I'll be using a little more now since I got that core warmer.

the oms could be really attractive because lp will carry it which should make it very affordable.

Yup they get it in about 2-3 weeks.

i would make sure to get a continuous ring

That's what attracted me to the OMS. Although not a continuous ring it is very narrow and the tips curve in very close to each other to almost form a ring, so it looks like it would have less problems with trapped air than a standard wing.