E-Learning: the way forward or maybe not?

[Web Monkey]

You'd still need checkout dives, medical forms, etc. E-learning just gets rid of the part that dive shops "lose" money on (or break even depending on who you talk to).

There is really no reason PADI actually needs the medical forms. It could easily be handled with online questions ("Do you have asthma, etc.").

Checkout dives can be handled at the resort destination, and could easily be reduced to a single dive with a DM.

The point I'm making is that once the world's largest agency starts sliding down the "diving as a tourist activity" path, there's nothing stopping them from continuing as far as they wish. (The RSTC is irrelevant when you're the 800Lb Gorilla).

Terry

 

[TSandM]

I have done e-learning with UTD. It was an effective use of my time, and allowed me to complete the classroom materials on my own schedule. Working through the exam showed me where my grasp of things was weak, and I spent the classroom time with the instructor working through the problems where I had been unsure of my answers.

I have reviewed the online materials for almost all of the UTD classes, and most of them are really very good.

 

[CamG]

Greetings Interceptor121 and I have limited experience with E-learning other than assisting training students who have went that route. In my experience I have seen them to be ready for the confined water dives and their dive knowledge to be above average for the level they represent. It does seem to work pretty well with the local dive shop in which I have been involved. Has it replaced the traditional class? Not really but has probably amounted to about 30% or less of total student numbers. I do see it becoming more popular in the future as discussed earlier in this thread.
I can see the dangers and issues that have been discussed and I am hopeful that Padi will do the right thing. As far as the instructor issues, the instructor I assist has been watching the e-learning program from the start. I have been allowed a window seat in his thoughts and perceptions. Much of what has been brought up has been discussed.
Not always is it comfortable to change and I understand that traditions are tough to replace but you can not replace training competency guidelines. Professionalism on part of an instructor will never go out of style or become obsolete. There is no shortage of great instructors here on SB and I have faith in the collective leadership in the coming days of change. The future of diving is hear and now and yet to come.
This is just my experience and opinion and look forward to meeting the challenges of the future.
CamG Keep diving....keep training....keep learning!

 

[ems_is_4_me]

I have wanted to get into scuba for a number of years, but until I discovered the PADI online class I did not have the time. I am a paramedic and my schedule is very hectic and it’s hard to find the time to do the class work. I done my PADI online OW in April of this year. I loved it I liked not being rushed, working and reading over the materials as many time as I like.
I felt like I went in to the LDS more than ready for class. I had no doubt of my knowledge I read and reread all the info. I take an activity that has the ability to kill me very seriously. So I do my research, and go in with the knowledge. I believe the PADI online is great for people like me.


95% of my diving in lakes and quarry’s. i did not take this class so i could go to mexico to do open water cer dives i went thought a LDS.

 

[Montana Diver]

I am similar to ems, I have a very hectic work schedule and trying to got off work for an evening course is difficult. I did the PADI e-learning and completed my OW dibes in Maui. The e-course fit my schedule for OW. For me it was a great use of my time. I completed the e-course and went back through most sectiuons 2-3 times to make certain I was comfortable with the information. Prior to my OW certification I was reading nearly everything I could find from NWGrateful diver regarding his info on gas management and other subjects. Thanks Bob!!

I am now in my AOW with LDS and they work around my schedule. The AOW class is way more oriented towards the next levels of training. My instructor is showing me how to VIP's tanks and how to rebuild regs. Safety is a major component of his class, demonstrated by the cracks in the threads of a condemned AL80, which had been repainted to to make it look new. While I realize that the AOW is primarily to make my diving more proficient through better buoyancy and the introduction to new environments, I am being allowed to learn more about equipment. I am also allowed to observe the pool and OW classes and critique the students.

The e-learning course fit my needs for OW while the AOW class meets my need to become more knowledgeable. However, all of this is just the beginning for me.

 

[Interceptor121]

So it would seem that:
1. E-learning is effective and prepares student in a competent way for the CW and OW sessions (this out of the experience of instructors)
2. Allows for more flexible use of time for time poor students
3. There are some LDS that take the opportunity to take teaching forward and enrich e-learning with practical applications to complete the knowledge or correct and enhance weaknesses of the students

So far so good.

It would be interesting to listen to some direct negative experiences if any to see if the concerns of part of the instructor population of having less prepared student is actually justified or not

 

[Web Monkey]

So it would seem that:
1. E-learning is effective and prepares student in a competent way for the CW and OW sessions (this out of the experience of instructors)
2. Allows for more flexible use of time for time poor students
3. There are some LDS that take the opportunity to take teaching forward and enrich e-learning with practical applications to complete the knowledge or correct and enhance weaknesses of the students

So far so good.

It would be interesting to listen to some direct negative experiences if any to see if the concerns of part of the instructor population of having less prepared student is actually justified or not

"Less prepared" than what? Now that certification has been reduced to a 2 day class, I'm not sure elearning could do much damage.

Terry

 

[Coldwater_Canuck]

There is really no reason PADI actually needs the medical forms. It could easily be handled with online questions ("Do you have asthma, etc.").

Checkout dives can be handled at the resort destination, and could easily be reduced to a single dive with a DM.

The point I'm making is that once the world's largest agency starts sliding down the "diving as a tourist activity" path, there's nothing stopping them from continuing as far as they wish. (The RSTC is irrelevant when you're the 800Lb Gorilla).

Terry

I'm not sure if there is much justification for this "slippery slope" argument. I just don't see the link between online training and dropping the confined dives and turning the checkout dives into a single dive with a DM.

If PADI really wanted to make training cheaper or take more profits, they could drop the checkout dives to one dive with a DM with or without the internet: I just don't see the connection.

I also don't get why this becomes listed as a "tourist" technology: as TSAndM stated, UTD uses online training, and they are cetainly not a "tourist agency". Granted, PADI has a bad record of dumbing down training; however, I think because of that people are automatically making an association where there may be none. "If PADI is doing something it must be to dumb down training, further cater to tourists, etc.". When in reality, e-learning is independent of just PADI, and it is more likely just PADI's attempt to appeal to a younger generation and take advantage of the internet (the fact that they charge more means there is probably little more to it then that).

Unfortunately I think the fact that anything PADI does leads to people thinking they have some ulterior motive is preventing an honest look at the subject. If it helps, talk about UTD's use of the technology so the PADI bias doesn't become part of the question.

 

[Thalassamania]

I think my world if you count the number of dive center that exist and how they go about things is probably a more accurate description of reality than your classes

I think you've got it quite backward, ... for example: the designer of a Bentley or a Ferrari likely knows a whole lot more about the fit, finish and performance of a Chevy than then the salesman at a Chevy dealership knows about Bentleys or Ferraris, he's probably never even sat in, not to mention driven a Bentley or a Ferrari.

When did you teach your last class and in which location out of interest?

Not that it adds anything to the value of the discussion since the quality of what each of us has to say should stand on its own, without the logical fallacy of an "Argument from Authority." But just for you, two weeks ago, here on the Big Island.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I also don't get why this becomes listed as a "tourist" technology: as TSAndM stated, UTD uses online training, and they are cetainly not a "tourist agency". Granted, PADI has a bad record of dumbing down training; however, I think because of that people are automatically making an association where there may be none. "If PADI is doing something it must be to dumb down training, further cater to tourists, etc.". When in reality, e-learning is independent of just PADI, and it is more likely just PADI's attempt to appeal to a younger generation and take advantage of the internet (the fact that they charge more means there is probably little more to it then that).

I would posit that e-Learning works much better for an agency such as UTD than it does for PADI ... not because of dumbing down content but because of the type of student each agency tends to attract. UTD caters to a generally high-motivated audience ... people who's primary goal is to learn, rather than to get a c-card. For the typical PADI student, learning is simply a means to an end ... they expect to get certified at the end of the class. The UTD student goes in with the understanding that there's a substantial possibility they will not get certified right away, but will have to put more effort into skills and come back later for re-evaluation. That model wouldn't work well with the typical PADI student.

Point being that it's apples and oranges to compare the implementation of online classes between the two agencies ... because not only is the curriculum different, but the motivations and expectations of the students are different.

e-Learning is just another tool ... an innovation made possible by emerging technology ... much like a dive computer. And like a dive computer, it'll work better in some applications than in others. I believe how well it works is directly proportional to how motivated and disciplined the student taking the online course happens to be.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)