Entanglement Poll

[dlwalke]

I'm wondering how rare or common entanglements are. I was amazed to see in another poll that something like 23% of divers have experienced an OOA situation (either themselves or their buddy). I hope entanglements are less common. I've only recently started diving. For my next trip (first vacation after OW certification), I plan to do a lot of diving and will be sporting some shears and a line cutter. As an aside, any thoughts on the best placement for these items.

Dave

 

[large_diver]

I guess it depends on what kind of diving you do. Lots of lobster pots here in New England means lots of entanglement "opportunities". I've gotten myself hooked on lobster lines a few times. I have used Mares Quattros fins for all my dives up to this point and the buckles on them seem to be like magnets for any kind of line. Dive flag line is also especially good at becoming snagged on these buckles.

It is also fun to be carrying the flag and come upon a "string" of lobster traps -- this is where the lobsterman strings together 5-10 pots with a line that runs horizontally 10-15 feet off the bottom. On low visibility days, you often don't see the line until you are well past it and you suddenly notice that the flag is snarled.

I use a BP/wing and carry shears in a small pocket with a velcro closure on the waist belt of my harness. No knife.

 

[Uncle Pug]

dlwalke once bubbled...
I'm wondering how rare or common entanglements are.

How much crap you have dangling.
How situationally aware you are.
How well you watch your buddy & vice versa.
Where you plan your dives.
Do you have a back mounted pony or argon?

 

[MikeFerrara]

I had an entanglement situation. I also have all those things UP mentioned pretty squared away. My wife and I did a cave dive with a guy who was with us for our full cave class. This guy hadn't done a cave dive since the class and he had never been in this cave so we put him between us. My wife lead and I took the third position. We hit some bad vis and this guy got a little rattled. He was in the bottom and several times he got too buoyant and used the line to hold himself down. This is a ver very bad thing to do. If the line breaks you may have real trouble especially in this cave since the line in some place runs through huge rooms which could make the line very hard to find. We came to a place where the tunnel narrowed and slopped up. The line ran along the ceiling here. The line started to "chase" me. It would be above me then below me, on my right then on my left. Then it was wrapped around my ankle. When I felt the line I stopped. Before I could reach it to remove it. the line tightened violently, jerking my foot up toward the ceiling and wrapping aroung my other ankle. I signalled ahead with no response. As I reached for the line it jerked again. My right leg came out but my left leg was pinned tightly to the ceiling with me hanging upside down. Eventually the line slackened and after getting my breathing under control I reached my ankle with both hands and unwrapped the line. The line was #24 cave line. I was wearing dry gloves doubles and a al 80 stage. Once free I checked my equipment (and myself) and considered my options. In general a lone diver should not go further into the cave but rather wait for the team to backtrack. However, with my wife in front of this diver I decided she was in far more danger than I was. I caught up to them a short distance ahead and gave the thumbs up. I later found that his abuse of the line had caused my wife to turn the dive and they were already headed back when I caught them. I later learned, as we attempted to debrief the dive, he was never aware of my absense. I found this impossible to believe and here is why. Aside from the fact that there should have been regular communication between me and him and him and my wife, once my wife gave the thumbs up, he should have returned her signal then passed that signal to me and insist on a confirming return from me. Instead he was headed out and never took notice of the fact that I wasn't in front of him. On the way out I saw the reason for the bad (worse than usual) vis. I could clearly see the marks on the bottom where he clawed his way down the passage. During the debrief he denied ever touching the bottom or abusing the line. Needless to say he hasn't been back into a cave with us. In fact nobody outside of our regular team has or will.

In this case, as in others, the entanglement itself presented no danger. The danger was the very real possibility that the line would break, the team seperation and a team member that was obviously unaware of anything other than his own discomfort.

Without doubt, I should have turned the dive at the first sign that he was not enjoying the dive, At the time, though, I thought he would settle in in a few minutes so I mistakenly allowed the dive to continue. I'll never make that mistake again. I is also clear that this diver didn't care enough about his team to turn the dive when he found himself that uncomfortable. He was also too proud to admit mistakes in the debriefing, therefore, I see little chance of improvement. In my view this is a perfect example of an unsafe attitude.

If you ever find yourself alone and tied to the ceiling a quarter mile into a cave you WILL know what alone feels like. You may as well be on the Moon.

 

[WreckWriter]

the biggest hazard around here is monofiliment (fishing line). Several times, while swimming along a wreck, I've been brought to a stop by it tangled around my legs. You can't see it unless its real heavy stuff and if you swim into it, it will grab you. A sharp knife is a must.

Tom

 

[Uncle Pug]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
I had an entanglement situation. I also have all those things UP mentioned pretty squared away.

...go back and read my post again.... then read your post again and see how many of those things I mentioned you (which includes your whole team!) did not didn't have squared away on the entanglement dive.

 

[O-ring]

Same here...

the biggest hazard around here is monofiliment (fishing line). Several times, while swimming along a wreck, I've been brought to a stop by it tangled around my legs. You can't see it unless its real heavy stuff and if you swim into it, it will grab you. A sharp knife is a must.

Got hooked in the leg by a hook attached to monofilament on the Morgan in va beach. I just stopped, held my position in the water, and signalled to my buddy that I was entangled. He extracted the hook and freed my leg - didn't need a cutting device.

However, I always carry a small knife attached to my harness at the waist and a pair of shears in my pocket.

 

[WreckWriter]

Yea, hooks are a drag. They get hung in permanent mooring lines a lot too.

 

[MikeFerrara]

UP,
Perhaps I should of said we have them squared away until they are not. Read all of my post. I think I outlined the issues accurately. On any dive there is a chance of a team member and therefore the team falling apart. Things become less predictable with a new team member. Situations and peoples reactions are dynamic and not always predictable. Never, regardless of training or experience be so smug as to think you or your team have these things completely under control, you don't. If your team hasn't experienced any "problems" then the team hasn't been tested.

I viewed this dive as benign and appropriate for his first cave dive with us. He viewed it differently. Something about the look or feel of things got into his head. He didn't address it at all and I was too slow. Hind sight is 20-20.

 

[Uncle Pug]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
Perhaps I should of said we have them squared away until they are not

Hind sight is 20-20.

We don't want folks to get the wrong idea and think that stuff just happens so there is no need to mitigate the posibility with foresight. I mean if Mike is all squared away and it happened to him anyway... then why should I even try to keep it from happening... just deal with it when it does.

It sounded like you were saying that the points I outlined (an abreviated list at that) were not the issue as they were all squared away... when in fact they were the issue and hindsight shows us that... that is why we need to use hindsight.

Anyway... revisting your post with my points 2, 3, 4 in mind would be helpful to demonstrate to those reading this thread what 20/20 hindsight shows us and perhaps enable us to improve our foresight.

So taking them one at a time:
*How situationally aware you are.*
At what point should you have called the dive?

*How well you watch your buddy & vice versa.*
At what point should you have called the dive?

*Where you plan your dives.*
Should you have called the dive at this location before it started?

Don't go defensive on me here... this is about gaining foresight from hindsight.... I admire you for the way you were able to handle the situation... scares me though

I am sure that you are a much better diver than I am... and I have never been in a cavern much less a cave.