First dive of AOW class... Yukon 10/1/05, NOT fun.

[JJP161]

Hi Marc,

I'm sorry to hear about your terrible diving experience, thankfully you are alright. You might want to check out my post below as it seems I had a very similiar experience with a SanDiego dive charter last year. Sounds like it was the same outfit to me?

Joe


http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=92891

 

[MikeFerrara]

It's my opinion that PADI shuld required at least 50 dives before an advanced course - if not only to promote the seriousness of the course and set an experience level expectation. I agree it does no good if the DM doesn't ask for it.

The PADI AOW class is a tool for the shop to get you right back out diving and keep you diving which can be good or bad. Kepp in mind that the agencies primary customer is the shop. You are too but most most people don't choose an agency they choose a shop or instructor and takew whatever card the shop offers so the agency needs to sell the shop on them rather than you. Courses are designed to be something the shop can sell and be profitable. What does the shop do for income while you're getting your 50 dives in and will you get them in locally at all if the shop doesn't have classes to offer you to help keep you in the water? Sure they could just invite you out diving but how do they get paid for that?

Besides, with PADI you only need 60 dives to be a divemaster (you need 60 dives to be certified as a DM but can begine the training much sooner. You only need 100 dives to become an instructor. There's also many specialties (and main levels like rescue) that require AOW certification be done first. If they required 50 dives to take AOW they would have to completely redesign their entire system. The fact is that MANY divers get through their gun-ho diving stage before they even hit 50 dives and that's the period of time the shop has to sell you everything they are ever going to sell you. The system is designed such that they always have a class and a piece of equipment (often related to the class) to sell you. There isn't any way the agency or the shop wants a 46 dive lul in there right after OW. Those new divers account for the bulk of the business at many shops. Remember it's a business!

 

[Skytzo_Marc]

Hi Marc,

I'm sorry to hear about your terrible diving experience, thankfully you are alright. You might want to check out my post below as it seems I had a very similiar experience with a SanDiego dive charter last year. Sounds like it was the same outfit to me?

Joe


http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=92891

WOW. That does sound very similar to my own experience. I think we probably felt exactly the same when we were in the water at the Yukon.

 

[DiverDebbie]

You've received a ton of mixed feedback here. As for whether or not you were ready to take that AOW course, perhaps you know now that you weren't ready, but don't be hard on yourself about it. You were honest with them about your limited warm water experience and they signed you up. You put your trust in that instructor and he let you down. You aren't to blame. I personally think the instructor was completely in the wrong. He may call it a wreck dive, but it was planned below 60' and was therefore the deep dive. He should have briefed it and dove it as such, running through the deep dive skills. The list of all he did wrong is a long one. The incident absolutely should be reported in order to prevent this instructor from possibly killing someone one day.
The most important thing here is that everyone is ok and it sounds like you learned a tremendous amount from this bad experience.

The question of how soon after OW should a diver take their AOW will continue to be debated. I think there are pros and cons to both taking it fairly soon vs. waiting while. Much depends on the individual diver. Some may be ready and others not. So setting a number of dives before you can take it may not be the answer either.
I believe that taking an AOW course gives divers the skills and knowledge to become a better diver. It doesn't instantly make make one an advanced diver.

It would be nice if there was a kind of "intermediate" course in there, where divers would take their nav. dive and peak performance as mandatory dives (and maybe throw in optional ones like wreck or naturalist), before taking the deep dive and night dive as advanced. Just my thoughts.

 

[scubadobadoo]

The PADI AOW class is a tool for the shop to get you right back out diving and keep you diving which can be good or bad. Kepp in mind that the agencies primary customer is the shop. You are too but most most people don't choose an agency they choose a shop or instructor and takew whatever card the shop offers so the agency needs to sell the shop on them rather than you. Courses are designed to be something the shop can sell and be profitable. What does the shop do for income while you're getting your 50 dives in and will you get them in locally at all if the shop doesn't have classes to offer you to help keep you in the water? Sure they could just invite you out diving but how do they get paid for that?

Besides, with PADI you only need 60 dives to be a divemaster (you need 60 dives to be certified as a DM but can begine the training much sooner. You only need 100 dives to become an instructor. There's also many specialties (and main levels like rescue) that require AOW certification be done first. If they required 50 dives to take AOW they would have to completely redesign their entire system. The fact is that MANY divers get through their gun-ho diving stage before they even hit 50 dives and that's the period of time the shop has to sell you everything they are ever going to sell you. The system is designed such that they always have a class and a piece of equipment (often related to the class) to sell you. There isn't any way the agency or the shop wants a 46 dive lul in there right after OW. Those new divers account for the bulk of the business at many shops. Remember it's a business!

I agree Mike. Good post, honest, as usual. Moreover, as I stated before, setting a dive number to reach before one can take X class doesn't do ANY good if the dive ops, DM's, or Instructors don't ask to see a dive log and READ IT! I'll say it again...I have NEVER been asked for a dive log from ANY dive op for ANY dive in over 150 dives. That's a problem. Wether or not someone is "ready" to take x class can only be answered by that individual but the dive op in question should have asked to see his DIVE LOG so they could HELP decide ALONG WITH HIM IN A SAFE AND PROFESSIONAL MANNER! LOL!

 

[Skytzo_Marc]

Thanks for all of the responses guys. I've actually decided that given my schedule, it probably wouldn't be a good idea to dive at the moment. School is already hammering me and I'm extremely inexperienced in this area, and overall. I mean right after this crap happened, I had to spend the whole of the next day in the school library working on a group project. If anything, I don't want to put my school in jeopardy as well.

I also don't have the money to buy quality equipment and I'm not going to buy crap equipment either. I want to do this right.

However, I am going back to Florida in December for 2 weeks. I plan to do a lot of diving out there in an area I'm more familiar with. I'll probably hit the central florida springs and dive off of west palm with the local dive club. By that time, I'll have the money saved up to buy much higher quality equipment than I could afford now.

When I get back from Florida, my last semester of college will be much easier (13 units as opposed to 16) and I think I will feel more comfortable then so I'll sign up with a local dive shop for some discover san diego type dives.

As for taking my AOW course... maybe I'll do that in Florida, maybe I won't. We'll see.

But that is the last time I'm going to sign up for a class at the cheapest place possible. You really do get what you pay for.

 

[Ayisha]

Lamont, your rock bottom calculator is very helpful. Thanks for sharing! :05:

 

[discrepancy]

Skytzo Marc,

The unprofessional instruction and supervision you "enjoyed" has been done to death already here, but there is another lesson from all of this...

It's the same old story, isn't it? Problems come in multiples, not one by one. This was your first dive in cold water, first time in bad viz, first time to 100', first time off new boat, with a new instructor, at a new location, and you weren't comfortable with your gear. No wonder you were nervous and it turned to custard.

Of course you have to push the envelope to become a better diver, but the lesson here is to do it step by step so you have time to focus on each new challenge one at a time.

We've all got just a finite amount of mental energy to devote to dealing with new situations, and piling the challenges on top of each other will overload anyone, and something has to give. Usually it's your composure.

Just imagine how much worse it could have been if you also had an equipment problem to deal with as well, or if there had been a vicious current, or a big swell and sloppy conditions.

So, don't give up on your diving, just take it step by step and enjoy the ride.

 

[Aquatic Eagle]

I agree that the instructor in this story sounds like he didn't do all that he should have. Just remember though that you need some more experience before taking your AOW. I personally don't think that AOW should be taken until you have gotten a very good handle on all that you learned in your OW course. Get some practice diving and get used to everything as far as skills and equipment use. Don't ever trust someone else to handle the equipment you're using. Check it out for yourself before using. Remember that it's life support equipment. AOW is a program to enhance your skills that you have already learned. I am not putting the blame for this incident on you but keep in mind that becoming a certified OW diver means that you can take care of yourself for the most part. After 7 years of no diving at all with very little diving experience before that, I would have recommended possibly taking the course again and a more in-depth refresher course. Refresher courses are designed for those people who haven't been diving in 6 months to maybe 2 years. Especially if you get certified and then have a big lapse right after. If you get certified and then spend two years diving constantly and then take a five year vacation from it, then I can see a refresher as possibly being enough With the little experience you have and the huge lapse in time since your last real dive, I would say that redoing your OW would have been the best thing for you to do. I got certified and then didn't dive at all for 5 years. When I decided to get back into it, I got newly certified and it's a good thing I did because when I was doing OW for the 2nd time, I realized that I didn't remember most of the things I had originally learned. Your instructor should have done a very shallow dive also knowing that you had such a big gap in time between your diving.

Diving is not like riding a bike if you stop riding right after you learn. You have to get comfortable riding the bike before taking off the training wheels. Good luck to you and keep us posted on your experiences.

 

[Scuba]

But that is the last time I'm going to sign up for a class at the cheapest place possible. You really do get what you pay for.

Don't count on that either. There are various geographical area club forums on this board under Dive Travel/Clubs were you may get some good recommendations from the locals. There's a couple Southern Cal. dicsussion boards were you can ask for referrals too. Think about what you expect to get from the class and clearly communicate it to a potential instructor before you sign up.

Don't let warm clear waters lull you into complacency. Underwater is under water. Know that diving can be relatively safe, fun, and an awesome experience. Due diligence isrequired. A board such as this one is a great resource for any diver, use it. Good luck.