Force Fin Sticker shock

[covediver]

This thread seems to reinvent itself every few weeks.

If you don't want to buy a pair of $700 fins, don't buy them. Nice thing about the free enterprise system is that if your product line doesn't sell, you go out of business (although supporting our "free" or "private" enterprise system is no longer "free" or "private" from a taxpayers point of view).

Maybe its the high cost of living in Santa Barbara that makes the fins more expensive. Or maybe it is he has a superior product that some folks are willing to pay a premium to own.

I don't use Force Fins, tried them once at the old Marineland Baja Reef years ago and did not like them. I will stay with my Jet Fins. Still, everytime I went by Anacapa Dive Center is SB you would see Bob's shingle up the street. That was 20 years ago, he must be doing something right. A mere "gimmick" wouldn't last that long....

 

[themagni]

$786.25 base price for Excellerating Force Fin before other options.
Man...I just want a pair not half a dozen.

Huh.

I got my Force Fins for ~$120 with shipping, including duty and exchange, to Canada, back when our dollar was at 68 cents.

That included the bungies.

I'd buy another pair of FF again, but $800 is the price of a DPV, not a pair of fins.

 

[Bob Evans]

COVEDIVER, Marineland of the Pacific, Baja reef, that goes back a long time ago, may be 1982? We made a special urethane formulation to be super flexible for the snorkeling program. I still make this model. It is called "jiggly wiggly" for folks who have impaired kick strength. Marineland was sure a cool place to visit. I grew up in Hermosa Beach, and worked for the Meistrell Brothers at Dive N' Surf. We moved from 28 Anacapa Street over 10 years ago into our own building. We outgrew our 28 Anacapa shop in time. Don't you kid yourself. I have the best team and we pump out fins and you're right, we are still here. Thanks for bringing up our begining at Marineland of the Pacific. Bob

 

[castanagajt]

Pescador775,
fighting on the internet is like the Special Olympics, even if you win you're still retarded.
I love my Force Fins and Bob Evans makes the best Fins in the world. Are you that bitter in life that you have to bad mouth a very good friend of mine?
How very sad you are.

I will be sitting back on this one, However this comment is so funny.

 

[castanagajt]

<img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a289/amature/special_olympics.jpg"> here's the picture that phrase was taken from!

 

[ZzzKing]

<img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a289/amature/special_olympics.jpg"> here's the picture that phrase was taken from!

That just isn't right.

Why won't this thread die? We all now know that Force Fins would be a bargain at twice the price and you can do all your diving at warp speed if you wear them. You'll use no air and expend no energy because the fin does all the work. You'll never kick up silt or die in a wreck. You can even tow the Titanic up from her final resting place if you want. The Navy is now powering their nuclear subs with them. The reactors are being removed and used as planter boxes outside the Pentagon. (highly classified)

And I couldn't say any of this if it weren't true.

 

[uncleavi]

That Baby is very Cute!
Force Fins are still a great fin.

 

[deco_martini]

I do have what I think is a legitimate question. I personally can see Bob's attention to detail and his love for making fins in some of the photos they post in the force fin forum here on SB.

However, there seems to be something weird. To me, a "Force Fin" usually refers to the traditional force fin design. Its made to be used with flutter kicks. That is what a "force fin" is to me.

However, the product lines have greatly expanded. Now you have the extra force and excellerating fins. These are stiffer fins that allow for frog kicks/etc. In other words, they aren't "Force Fins" as in the design paradigm, they just carry the Force Fin brand and are made in the same factory.

If I go to the web page for the excellerating fin, it says its your most powerful fin. So, which is it? Is is the snap of the classic design that makes it so good? Or is it the foot pocket design? Is the force fin foot pocket on a stiffer blade style fin better than a normal force fin? Is the advantage to the classic fin less muscle fatigue vs having more speed with the extraforce/excellerating models?

Mind you, I've read even the old usenet archives where Bob Evans puts his fins to the test in Florida with the naysayers. Some of the feedback went right into the R&D for some of the newer fin types. I was just wondering about how the tech fins are marketed vs the classic fin.

 

[ZzzKing]

That Baby is very Cute!

Why thank you very much! I think 99.9% of the cute credit should go to my wife since she's cute also. Me, not so much. The little girl is now 4 and is starting to swim all by herself. In 6 years or so I'll have a new dive buddy!

 

[meesier42]

If I go to the web page for the excellerating fin, it says its your most powerful fin. So, which is it? Is is the snap of the classic design that makes it so good? Or is it the foot pocket design? Is the force fin foot pocket on a stiffer blade style fin better than a normal force fin? Is the advantage to the classic fin less muscle fatigue vs having more speed with the extraforce/excellerating models?

To answer the question I'll try to relate my version of the sales pitch and hopefully answer your questions. To be honest the simple answer is Yes, but I will explain.

Design Points (the way I see it)
1) Upcurved blade- allows the maximum surface area during the power (down) kick to be available when you have the greatest leg strength available, from your quads
2) Foot pocket- allows the use of the quads without hyperextending the calves, which allows you to use all of the strength of the quads without pain or cramping. Matching the muscles a competitive swimmer kicks and is phsyiologically very efficient.
3) Flexible blade- by flexing during the kick creates hydrodynamic lift vice drag. This is why you can use them without the heel straps, as they create very little drag and the "Force" generated by this lift propells the fin forward onto your foot and subsequently pushing your foot/leg/body through the water
3a) the flexible blade, combined with the shape minimizes the surface area on the recovery to reduce the load on the hamstrings, further reducing the incidence of cramping.
4) Blade Materials- the high performance urethanes used have enough "snap" that they return to their shape at the end of your kick, returning the energy that you put into the blade by flexing it and continuing to propell you, most materials, rubber for example, absorb too much of this spring and react too slowly for it to return this stored energy to you. It is this feature of "activating" the flex of the blade that is critical.
5) Finally, by creating lift powered with larger muscle groups, you reduce the strain on the muscles (same load, bigger muscles), which decreases production of lactic acid which in turn makes you more comfortable and increases your endurance, keeping your heartrate and mind calmer, all of which combined helps lower your air consumption, in some cases significantly.
please see The Truth about Dive Fins

Most of the ForceFin line share all of these traits, but each has been altered to fill specific needs of each individual.

The Prime Line consist of the Original Fin (in Original, Pro, and TanDelta materials) plus the Foil Force, are the fins for 95% of people. While each of the materials is slightly stiffer to provide for stronger and stronger kickers. Most Scuba Divers find they prefer the Pro Force Fin as it is a nice balance of performance and price. I personnally believe the most noticable difference in the materials is the kick frequency that you use to go a given speed, the higher end materials require a lower kick frequency, I haven't noticed a major difference in how hard you must kick

The Extra Line- The Excellerator and the Extra Force. These are EXTRA everything

The Extra Force was designed to give maximum thrust and is very large, but works exactly the same as the Prime Fins, but with more power, speed, control, etc... but be warned, they take quite a bit of strength to "activate" the blade.
The Excellerator- was designed to Excellerate under the quick activation of the blade from a short frog kick while still providing very similar power as the Extra Force. They have "battens" on the back side of the blade to increase the snap of the blade. Also they have a flatter profile balancing the power and recovery kicks, allowing the use of fine control pulses and frog kicking.

To say that the Stiffer fins are Better?? Hmmm... that depends, is a truck better than a Van?? It truly depends, what are you going to use the fins for?

For the average diver the Prime line with the Original or Pro Force are a perfect match.
If you find yourself are lacking with the Prime Line because you are constantly in heavy currents or pushing doubles, drysuits, large cameras, or other heavy gear around then the Extra Line maybe a better option.

Trade offs- well I don't think there are many, but you have to choose wisely, matching the fin that you use with the type of diving that you desire. Once you find the fin that works best for you, there are no trade offs, you have everything that you want.

Deco Martini- Did I answer your questions?? please let me know if not, I will try my best to help


Since there are so many fins available in the line and they are hard to test dive, I am hosting a ForceFin DEMO Day this weekend for all to come and try them. I will be at Lake Rawlings in Virginia October 18th-19th with my collection for people to try and decide for themselves.