OP
caribean-ted
Contributor
Time for me to Invest in a pony bottle. Hte all the extra weight though
Hard enough getting into the boat lol
Hard enough getting into the boat lol
Freeflow, what would you do?
- Thread starter caribean-ted
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Basking Ridge Diver
Contributor
So yesterday my son and I went for the first dive of the season. In all my years of diving I have never had a free flow 2nd stage but yesterday was my first.
I have read many posts and wondered how or why it happened and what I would do if it happened to me - now I know.
We were about 20 feet down and it was cool 46 degree water but certainly not freezing - fresh water reservoir on a platform. I was going to practice my pony sharing with my son - nothing too difficult, it was our first dive of the season and wanted it to go well. So I took my regulator out of my mouth - Aqua Lung LX and proceeded to put the pony reg in my mouth. As soon as I took the regulator out the free flow started - I tried to purge it to no avail - I tried to put it back in my mouth I could still breath but I could not really see - I put the pony back in my mouth signaled to my son, untied the flag from the platform and when I hit the surface I drained about 1500 PSI off the main bottle and the free flow stopped at the surface again I was no more than 20 feet down - I would think no more than 1 minute passed but it was difficult to tell with all the extra things going on. Very strange, that I could not judge how quickly I was surfacing due to the excessive flow of bubbles I was looking for small bubbles like I normally do just to judge - next time I might try using my PDC to track my ascent. Hindsight is 20/20 but it was a very different experience than I anticipated - no panic but I was in awe of how fast that tank drained.
I may need to adjust it a bit more negatively and make sure I am not drawing a breath when I pull out the reg - no other reg has done this previously. It was very interesting.
I have read many posts and wondered how or why it happened and what I would do if it happened to me - now I know.
We were about 20 feet down and it was cool 46 degree water but certainly not freezing - fresh water reservoir on a platform. I was going to practice my pony sharing with my son - nothing too difficult, it was our first dive of the season and wanted it to go well. So I took my regulator out of my mouth - Aqua Lung LX and proceeded to put the pony reg in my mouth. As soon as I took the regulator out the free flow started - I tried to purge it to no avail - I tried to put it back in my mouth I could still breath but I could not really see - I put the pony back in my mouth signaled to my son, untied the flag from the platform and when I hit the surface I drained about 1500 PSI off the main bottle and the free flow stopped at the surface again I was no more than 20 feet down - I would think no more than 1 minute passed but it was difficult to tell with all the extra things going on. Very strange, that I could not judge how quickly I was surfacing due to the excessive flow of bubbles I was looking for small bubbles like I normally do just to judge - next time I might try using my PDC to track my ascent. Hindsight is 20/20 but it was a very different experience than I anticipated - no panic but I was in awe of how fast that tank drained.
I may need to adjust it a bit more negatively and make sure I am not drawing a breath when I pull out the reg - no other reg has done this previously. It was very interesting.
purging the already freeflowing regulator will not resolve the issue if it was the one you were breathing from before.
You can try to put your finger in the mouthpiece to stop it.
Did you hold the mouthpiece down when the freeflow started? Or had it already started before you removed the regulator from your mouth?
Tigerman
Contributor
I've had my second stage freeflow twice, both in "barely Liquid" freshwater and both not cooperative to manipulation.
On the latest one I actually opened the reg once I was surfaced and lo and behold - full of ice.
I was "only" at about 80 feet on the first occasion and barely 60 feet on the second and I was actually not as surprised as I was annoyed by the fact that it happened as I had been suspecting the regs to be tuned a bit towards the "tropical side" when I got them back from the last service. Both times I was breathing rather heavilly as I was dealing with some heavy wrenches, changing filters (that was very hard to get off) on 6"ish drinking water inlet hoses..
On the latest one I actually opened the reg once I was surfaced and lo and behold - full of ice.
I was "only" at about 80 feet on the first occasion and barely 60 feet on the second and I was actually not as surprised as I was annoyed by the fact that it happened as I had been suspecting the regs to be tuned a bit towards the "tropical side" when I got them back from the last service. Both times I was breathing rather heavilly as I was dealing with some heavy wrenches, changing filters (that was very hard to get off) on 6"ish drinking water inlet hoses..
Basking Ridge Diver
Contributor
I'm going to pull a Diver0001, and look at the question slightly differently.
A freeflow is a significant major failure, especially if you can't it to stop. We can easily handle one major failure. What made the original question a question at all is the SECOND major failure . . . the OP posits being out of communication with his spare gas (i.e. buddy).
Rather than spending a great deal of time talking about de-tuning regulators and the like, maybe it would be more profitable to examine the various formations one can use for diving, and how each can be applied to any given situation? When diving along the hull of a wreck, it is not much fun for the guy on the outside if you swim shoulder-to-shoulder. But in a single file formation, the distance between divers should be controlled, and lights should be used with enough power to allow the guy in front to be sure he hasn't swum away from the guy behind. In very clear, light-struck water, this is more difficult, and requires frequent back-checking by the lead diver.
When diving decks or superstructure, it is generally possible to remain shoulder-to-shoulder, where a quick signal will alert the buddy to the freeflow problem (if he hasn't already heard it).
Fix the buddy problem, and the freeflow is an annoyance. Persist with poor buddy practices, and a lot of minor problems become dive-ending issues.
A freeflow is a significant major failure, especially if you can't it to stop. We can easily handle one major failure. What made the original question a question at all is the SECOND major failure . . . the OP posits being out of communication with his spare gas (i.e. buddy).
Rather than spending a great deal of time talking about de-tuning regulators and the like, maybe it would be more profitable to examine the various formations one can use for diving, and how each can be applied to any given situation? When diving along the hull of a wreck, it is not much fun for the guy on the outside if you swim shoulder-to-shoulder. But in a single file formation, the distance between divers should be controlled, and lights should be used with enough power to allow the guy in front to be sure he hasn't swum away from the guy behind. In very clear, light-struck water, this is more difficult, and requires frequent back-checking by the lead diver.
When diving decks or superstructure, it is generally possible to remain shoulder-to-shoulder, where a quick signal will alert the buddy to the freeflow problem (if he hasn't already heard it).
Fix the buddy problem, and the freeflow is an annoyance. Persist with poor buddy practices, and a lot of minor problems become dive-ending issues.
billt4sf
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I don't see many posts reminding divers that, even after they surface, there could be a problem -- inflating the BCD. (We're all practicing oral inflation, right?)
Here's where dumping weights AT THE SURFACE might be an option if you can't get the BCD inflated fast enough.
- Bill
Here's where dumping weights AT THE SURFACE might be an option if you can't get the BCD inflated fast enough.
- Bill
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On walls and the outer hulls of ships one method that works well is for the "lead" diver to be slightly above ... a meter or two at the most ... and roughly a body length in front. This is a "travel" position that allows the lead diver to easily see his buddy by looking down and slightly back ... the following diver to easily see his buddy by looking up and slightly forward ... and keeps the lower diver's bubbles just behind the fins of the lead diver. If either diver sees something worthwhile, it's easy to signal the other diver to stop and come for a look-see. If there's a problem, light signals can also be used effectively from either position to get the other diver's attention.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
industrious95
Contributor
I never had an unexpected BC or Dry suit inflation. I would just pull the hose off if that happened. At least, I like to think I'd have the calmness and thoughtfulness to disconnect the hose.
I did have a bad freeflow situation once. I was doing a NJ Ocean dive in January. Air temp around 32. Water temperature 39.
I got down to depth (about 90 feet) and my reg started to free flow. I was using a Steel 120, so I had plenty of EAN 32, and I had my pony. I tried all the usual stuff to stop the free flow, but it got more and more intense. It went from a slight bubble to a major blast. I dive a ScubaPro 250 with an MK1+ first stage, which is supposed to be good for cold water. And when I have the regulator serviced, which I did the week before the dive, I always remind the shop it will be used in the ocean during the winter.
I figured whatever the problem was, I wasn't going to resolve it 90 feet down. I got another diver's attention and motioned that I was going up. He started coming towards me and I waved him away, there was no reason for him to abort his dive.
I swam to the ascent line and did a normal ascent to 15 feet. From looking at my gauges, I could see I was loosing gas quickly, but I was on the line, there was little current, I had plenty of gas in the tank plus my pony, and there was no reason to panic. I was totally calm. Since the water was so cold, I had planned to do a 5 minute safety stop instead of 3, just to add a little more margin of safety to my off-gassing. Since I had plenty of gas, that's what I did, breathing off the free flowing regulator. And cursing the guy who had just serviced my regulator, I might add.
I didn't want to use the Pony, because we had planned to do two dives that day and without a full fill in the Pony, I wouldn't go for the second dive. But, I did have it in case it became an emergency situation. I just had the forethought to realize there was no immediate need to use it.
As the tank drained, the free-flow slowed down. After a 4 minute safety stop, the tank was down to about 500 psi and I left the hang line, swam to the boat ladder, surfaced and the first thing I did was spit out my regulator and ask the mate to close my tank valve so it wouldn't empty completely. The entire incident took 6 minutes and I blew through close to 2800 lbs of gas.
As I sat on the bench, I tapped my regulator against my hand and ice came out. One of the other divers had ice-diving experience, and he said that the metal in the regulator had gotten below freezing from sitting in the air, and when I took a few pre-dive breaths from the regulator, my exhaling must have frozen inside the regulator. Than it was just a matter of the icing getting worse as I began my dive. His solution was not to exhale into the regulator when testing it before the next dive. With the ocean at 39 degrees, the regulator would quickly warm up to above freezing when I entered the water.
My gear worked fine after that and I did the next dive with the group with no incident. I've done many cold water dives since then, although as I get older, I just don't have the tolerance for the cold that I used to. Now, once the water's below 50 degrees, I stay out of it.
I did have a bad freeflow situation once. I was doing a NJ Ocean dive in January. Air temp around 32. Water temperature 39.
I got down to depth (about 90 feet) and my reg started to free flow. I was using a Steel 120, so I had plenty of EAN 32, and I had my pony. I tried all the usual stuff to stop the free flow, but it got more and more intense. It went from a slight bubble to a major blast. I dive a ScubaPro 250 with an MK1+ first stage, which is supposed to be good for cold water. And when I have the regulator serviced, which I did the week before the dive, I always remind the shop it will be used in the ocean during the winter.
I figured whatever the problem was, I wasn't going to resolve it 90 feet down. I got another diver's attention and motioned that I was going up. He started coming towards me and I waved him away, there was no reason for him to abort his dive.
I swam to the ascent line and did a normal ascent to 15 feet. From looking at my gauges, I could see I was loosing gas quickly, but I was on the line, there was little current, I had plenty of gas in the tank plus my pony, and there was no reason to panic. I was totally calm. Since the water was so cold, I had planned to do a 5 minute safety stop instead of 3, just to add a little more margin of safety to my off-gassing. Since I had plenty of gas, that's what I did, breathing off the free flowing regulator. And cursing the guy who had just serviced my regulator, I might add.
I didn't want to use the Pony, because we had planned to do two dives that day and without a full fill in the Pony, I wouldn't go for the second dive. But, I did have it in case it became an emergency situation. I just had the forethought to realize there was no immediate need to use it.
As the tank drained, the free-flow slowed down. After a 4 minute safety stop, the tank was down to about 500 psi and I left the hang line, swam to the boat ladder, surfaced and the first thing I did was spit out my regulator and ask the mate to close my tank valve so it wouldn't empty completely. The entire incident took 6 minutes and I blew through close to 2800 lbs of gas.
As I sat on the bench, I tapped my regulator against my hand and ice came out. One of the other divers had ice-diving experience, and he said that the metal in the regulator had gotten below freezing from sitting in the air, and when I took a few pre-dive breaths from the regulator, my exhaling must have frozen inside the regulator. Than it was just a matter of the icing getting worse as I began my dive. His solution was not to exhale into the regulator when testing it before the next dive. With the ocean at 39 degrees, the regulator would quickly warm up to above freezing when I entered the water.
My gear worked fine after that and I did the next dive with the group with no incident. I've done many cold water dives since then, although as I get older, I just don't have the tolerance for the cold that I used to. Now, once the water's below 50 degrees, I stay out of it.
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