dumpsterDiver
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Going from BP-wing to Jacket BCD ...
- Thread starter SeaHound
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I find the argument, made several times in this thread, that if only new divers were exposed to BP/Ws, they would buy them. If only instructors would talk about them.... If only dive shops would sell them....
The shop with which I am associated sells jackets, back inflates, and BP/Ws. When I teach a class, I show students all the options and discuss the pros and cons. They know I use a BP/W, and they know why I use it. Three other instructors I know dive BP/Ws as well, and I know they recommend them to their students.
There is no real financial benefit to the shop to sell one above the other. Actually, there is a small difference that I will explain later, but that difference creates an incentive to sell the BP/W, not the jacket.
That being said, jacket BCDs account for more than 95% of the sales. It is an unusual day when a BP/W goes off the shelf.
Our shop does better than most because we are more of a tech training Mecca for the area than almost any other shop in the state. I would say that almost all our BP/W sales are going to people who are planning to use them for doubles.
And, sadly for the shop, many of those tech divers are going elsewhere for their BP/Ws (like online) because the brand the store sells (Apex) is not popular, and it is expensive. The problem is that the shop cannot sell the more popular brands. These companies require such a huge initial sales order and minimal annual sales quota that the shop would lose a lot of money selling those brands because they would have to sit on a ton of unsold inventory. They therefore sell Apex because it requires no additional sales requirement, being an Aqualung brand.
The store used to sell Salvo products. That required a huge initial outlay as well, and the store got badly burned in that fiasco.
When a store gets into equipment that is part of what most people consider tech equipment, it has a problem. It may have to maintain a large inventory of equipment that people simply aren't buying, and in a store with a small margin, that could be financial suicide. Meeting minimum sales quotas is why there is a financial incentive to sell the BP/Ws over the jacket style. If you don't think the product is going to sell, you don't stock it.
At any rate, my experience contradicts the notion that new divers would be flocking to BP/Ws if only they knew about them.
The shop with which I am associated sells jackets, back inflates, and BP/Ws. When I teach a class, I show students all the options and discuss the pros and cons. They know I use a BP/W, and they know why I use it. Three other instructors I know dive BP/Ws as well, and I know they recommend them to their students.
There is no real financial benefit to the shop to sell one above the other. Actually, there is a small difference that I will explain later, but that difference creates an incentive to sell the BP/W, not the jacket.
That being said, jacket BCDs account for more than 95% of the sales. It is an unusual day when a BP/W goes off the shelf.
Our shop does better than most because we are more of a tech training Mecca for the area than almost any other shop in the state. I would say that almost all our BP/W sales are going to people who are planning to use them for doubles.
And, sadly for the shop, many of those tech divers are going elsewhere for their BP/Ws (like online) because the brand the store sells (Apex) is not popular, and it is expensive. The problem is that the shop cannot sell the more popular brands. These companies require such a huge initial sales order and minimal annual sales quota that the shop would lose a lot of money selling those brands because they would have to sit on a ton of unsold inventory. They therefore sell Apex because it requires no additional sales requirement, being an Aqualung brand.
The store used to sell Salvo products. That required a huge initial outlay as well, and the store got badly burned in that fiasco.
When a store gets into equipment that is part of what most people consider tech equipment, it has a problem. It may have to maintain a large inventory of equipment that people simply aren't buying, and in a store with a small margin, that could be financial suicide. Meeting minimum sales quotas is why there is a financial incentive to sell the BP/Ws over the jacket style. If you don't think the product is going to sell, you don't stock it.
At any rate, my experience contradicts the notion that new divers would be flocking to BP/Ws if only they knew about them.
dumpsterDiver
Banned
- Messages
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- # of dives
- 2500 - 4999
aafff
senseiern
Contributor
Did a pool dive with a BP/W yesterday. I was working with a great guy who worked on my reviews for my OW dive in two weeks.after about two hours in a highly used rental jacket from the dive shop, he let me use his BP/W.
I found things I liked, like not having a chest crush from the jacket. Floating was a little difficult. Being used to the jacket's float profile, it was a little hard facing more forward. Having said that, I expected the back only wings would be like having a dingy on my back...it wasn't that bad.
I liked the BP/W's front side. having to deal with just straps and not inflation pockets with straps on them meant that I strapped in and did not need to adjust much after inflating. It might have been the design of this BP/W, but I found it harder to deflate the air.
Going horizontal was much easier with the BP/W, but the jacket made vertical much easier.
Once I put the BP/W, I added 6" to little Sensei, but it went back to normal when I took it off. But, that might be because I put the weight belt on wrong.
I found things I liked, like not having a chest crush from the jacket. Floating was a little difficult. Being used to the jacket's float profile, it was a little hard facing more forward. Having said that, I expected the back only wings would be like having a dingy on my back...it wasn't that bad.
I liked the BP/W's front side. having to deal with just straps and not inflation pockets with straps on them meant that I strapped in and did not need to adjust much after inflating. It might have been the design of this BP/W, but I found it harder to deflate the air.
Going horizontal was much easier with the BP/W, but the jacket made vertical much easier.
Once I put the BP/W, I added 6" to little Sensei, but it went back to normal when I took it off. But, that might be because I put the weight belt on wrong.
Did a pool dive with a BP/W yesterday. I was working with a great guy who worked on my reviews for my OW dive in two weeks.after about two hours in a highly used rental jacket from the dive shop, he let me use his BP/W.
I found things I liked, like not having a chest crush from the jacket. Floating was a little difficult. Being used to the jacket's float profile, it was a little hard facing more forward. Having said that, I expected the back only wings would be like having a dingy on my back...it wasn't that bad.
I liked the BP/W's front side. having to deal with just straps and not inflation pockets with straps on them meant that I strapped in and did not need to adjust much after inflating. It might have been the design of this BP/W, but I found it harder to deflate the air.
Going horizontal was much easier with the BP/W, but the jacket made vertical much easier.
Once I put the BP/W, I added 6" to little Sensei, but it went back to normal when I took it off. But, that might be because I put the weight belt on wrong.
Thanks for the update, everything has a learning curve when you were trying to deflate your wing were you using the inflator or the dump on the lower left handside of the wing? What kind of backplate were you using? Normally if you balance your rig you will dump weight not add it. Sounds like you are having fun, enjoy your tryouts
mictrik
Contributor
Funny, I have also seen the opposite. I have found myself comfortably waiting on the surface (could fall asleep) while my assigned struggles on the surface with his BC/W setup. This happened in Bermuda 10 years ago. If you are properly weighted and the vast majority of you are definitely not then you will hardly ever inflate your Jacket or Wing or any other bladder you may be using. A true jacket like the Scubapro Stabilizing jacket allows for perfect stability in all positions including upside down. When not inflated it is very streamline especially if you choose the proper size jacket and not one based on its lift capacity. Most of the BP/W users look like underwater cranes. Watch an old Cousteau expedition and see what streamlined is...and they know that you are not that in your BP/W.
I've gone that way, and have posted about it in other threads... along with my reasons...
But, you're right, there is certainly an air of belittlement, simply for personal choices made, whatever the reason, on this board, and unfortunately I've no doubt it stifles a number of possible and informative discussions...
I found this discussion much more even than anticipated.
That said, I've been quite happy with my jacket BC, although I have modded it quite a bit, notably adding a crotch strap. I don't know what the obsession is with hanging perfectly horizontal in the water, I'm often in all kinds of positions trying to get a good photograph. Completely inverted is actually very useful - head close to the reef, but fins well away - and it's a position I have no trouble maintaining with my jacket (although I did before I added the strap because it would creep up around my neck).
Anyway, I find a good-quality jacket BC works great and don't feel I have any compelling reason to spend any time, effort, or money on a plate & wing. "Peer pressure" means nothing and besides, 90% of the divers on a typical Florida reef boat are in jackets anyway. Maybe once my SeaQuest wears out I'll revisit the issue, but until then, I'm a happy jacket diver.
That said, I've been quite happy with my jacket BC, although I have modded it quite a bit, notably adding a crotch strap. I don't know what the obsession is with hanging perfectly horizontal in the water, I'm often in all kinds of positions trying to get a good photograph. Completely inverted is actually very useful - head close to the reef, but fins well away - and it's a position I have no trouble maintaining with my jacket (although I did before I added the strap because it would creep up around my neck).
Anyway, I find a good-quality jacket BC works great and don't feel I have any compelling reason to spend any time, effort, or money on a plate & wing. "Peer pressure" means nothing and besides, 90% of the divers on a typical Florida reef boat are in jackets anyway. Maybe once my SeaQuest wears out I'll revisit the issue, but until then, I'm a happy jacket diver.
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