Graduated license???

[wolf eel]

I agree. That is an excellent idea. That would wead out the useless instructors also.
Very good idea.

 

[in_cavediver]

As I read this old thread, I found a few interesting facts

1) Some divers believe that everyone should be able to dive even if they can't master
the OW skills. They should have had ample opertunity to do this with an instructor
and if they can't, they have no buisness diving without an instructor. Its just that
simple. Not everyone is capable of diving and there isn't an entitlement to the
C-card (or there shouldn't be at least)

2) Some divers were commenting about how to rate divers on a charter and what can
be done for screening. This is what the whole certification idea was to solve. If it's
broke, and trust me, it is, then why wouldn't you simply try to fix it instead of all
of the eloborate new stuff.

The fact is divers don't learn what they need to know and there is nothing being done to correct it. Actually, more is being done to perpetuate the problem. I have had several instructors and some were highly competent and thorough and some were an embarrassment. This is at all levels not just OW.

 

[wedivebc]

2) Some divers were commenting about how to rate divers on a charter and what can
be done for screening. This is what the whole certification idea was to solve. If it's
broke, and trust me, it is, then why wouldn't you simply try to fix it instead of all
of the eloborate new stuff.

The fact is divers don't learn what they need to know and there is nothing being done to correct it. Actually, more is being done to perpetuate the problem. I have had several instructors and some were highly competent and thorough and some were an embarrassment. This is at all levels not just OW.

Many divers (and instructors) who have spent their entire diving experience in tropical t-shirt diving environment come to our cold, turbulent waters where vis can be as far as the nose on your face and step on any dive charter, show their "XXX Master Super Diver Instructor" card and go diving. They don't know that they will have problems with the excess weight, extra hood, gloves, exposure suit until they get in the water. The dive operator only has a little plastic card to assess their ability to do the dive. There needs to be a better way to determine if a person is prepared to dive in a given environment. It is not a fault of the training system if someone has no experience in more extreme environments it is a fault of the certifying system.

 

[cornfed]

The dive operator only has a little plastic card to assess their ability to do the dive.

They can ask for a log book.

There needs to be a better way to determine if a person is prepared to dive in a given environment.

The charter operator could say, "I see your log book shows 100 dives, but they're all 30 ft quarry dives. I'm sorry, but I don't think that's adequate for this 100 ft dive in 30 deg water with a 2 knot current so I'm not going to let you sign up. Sorry."

It is not a fault of the training system if someone has no experience in more extreme environments it is a fault of the certifying system.

I have a NAUI OW card. According to NAUI, I'm "considered competent to engage in open water diving activities without supervision, provided the diving activities and the areas dived approximate those of training."

How can NAUI (as the certifying agency) be considered at fault for anything?

 

[JeffG]

It is not a fault of the training system if someone has no experience in more extreme environments it is a fault of the certifying system.

No....Its the fault of the diver.

 

[dbulmer]

Why is this a fault?

 

[wedivebc]

No....Its the fault of the diver.

Absolutely! The problem is in this day and age, no one sues themselves when they screw up.

 

[SteveDiver]

Absolutely! The problem is in this day and age, no one sues themselves when they screw up.

I agree! They attempt to blame someone else for their ignorance. HMMM. lets see- I will put this HOT cup of coffee in my crotch while driving, I will burn my balls and sue McDonald's makes sense? yea great idea!... lol

 

[JeffG]

I agree! They attempt to blame someone else for their ignorance. HMMM. lets see- I will put this HOT cup of coffee in my crotch while driving, I will burn my balls and sue McDonald's makes sense? yea great idea!... lol

But unfortunately the ideas that have been floated in this thread, they believe the "solution" is to create another level of "certification" above and beyond what exists to protect divers from themselves.

 

[wedivebc]

But unfortunately the ideas that have been floated in this thread, they believe the "solution" is to create another level of "certification" above and beyond what exists to protect divers from themselves.

And your solution is to let Darwin sort it out. You can't really believe that the feds won't step in if the accident rates increase. In the real world finding a way to keep divers from killing themselves is a more workable solution than letting the bad divers just kill themselves off.