Question Have you (or anyone you know) ever seen a yoke regulator dislodged while diving?

[lexvil]

As I see it, the point of this poll is to try to separate some fiction from fact, to prove or disprove a common myth. Maybe the next poll should be on observed, personally, issues or problems with DIN, I’m thinking a DIN falling over and landing on the regulator is likely to lead to as many issues as with yoke.

I prefer to use DIN when I can, usually here in the home waters but have no issue with using a yoke reg in yokelands, usually switching the yoke onto the same reg I use at home at the same time I’m removing the drysuit hose.

I’ve encountered bad, hard as a rock tank o rings just like everyone else and even that is pretty rare.

thank you James for disproving an anecdotal myth.

use whatever system you like, you’ll be fine, I like the compactness of DIN but sometimes the ease of Yoke is very nice, cold wet hands switching tanks.

 

[Lorenzoid]

thank you James for disproving an anecdotal myth.

Huh? I was with you until then. I don't think anything has been proven or disproven.

Like any poll on SB, the people who respond are just a tiny fraction of all divers. Moreover, as pointed out by several in this thread, the real flaw with polling people about yoke regs being dislodged while diving is that yoke regs are mostly used by divers who infrequently venture really close to--indeed, underneath--structures that could knock the reg off the tank. Rather, spending time underneath such structures invokes the realm of technical wreck and cave diving, and DIN regs have long been favored for those. There is not going to be much data about yoke regs in use in those environments.

 

[lexvil]

Huh? I was with you until then. I don't think anything has been proven or disproven.

Like any poll on SB, the people who respond are just a tiny fraction of all divers. Moreover, as pointed out by several in this thread, the real flaw with polling people about yoke regs being dislodged while diving is that yoke regs are mostly used by divers who infrequently venture really close to--indeed, underneath--structures that could knock the reg off the tank. Rather, spending time underneath such structures invokes the realm of technical wreck and cave diving, and DIN regs have long been favored for those. There is not going to be much data about yoke regs in use in those environments.

So feed the myth, some people love myth to support preconceived notions, have you data to counter anything ?

 

[James79]

Huh? I was with you until then. I don't think anything has been proven or disproven.

Like any poll on SB, the people who respond are just a tiny fraction of all divers. Moreover, as pointed out by several in this thread, the real flaw with polling people about yoke regs being dislodged while diving is that yoke regs are mostly used by divers who infrequently venture really close to--indeed, underneath--structures that could knock the reg off the tank. Rather, spending time underneath such structures invokes the realm of technical wreck and cave diving, and DIN regs have long been favored for those. There is not going to be much data about yoke regs in use in those environments.

While I agree that a poll here proves nothing, this poll was started in part due to a certain segment pitching that yokes are terrible with the risk of shearing or dislodging as a primary motivator to not use yokes... to the point that one even commented that we won't get rid of yokes until people just stop buying them. All of this with a general tone that they are just an accident waiting to happen.
My view of "flaw" you address (yoke users typically aren't in an overhead) is that it isn't so much a flaw, as an indicator (combined with the numbers and situations the poll has given us) that most respondents made their decision on yoke vs. DIN based on THEIR use case... and that it has worked out well for them.
So, while not a "proof," it seems to me that a hand-wringing "yokes are dangerous" approach is maybe less than warranted?

Respectfully,

James

 

[johndiver999]

While I agree that a poll here proves nothing, this poll was started in part due to a certain segment pitching that yokes are terrible with the risk of shearing or dislodging as a primary motivator to not use yokes... to the point that one even commented that we won't get rid of yokes until people just stop buying them. All of this with a general tone that they are just an accident waiting to happen.
My view of "flaw" you address (yoke users typically aren't in an overhead) is that it isn't so much a flaw, as an indicator (combined with the numbers and situations the poll has given us) that most respondents made their decision on yoke vs. DIN based on THEIR use case... and that it has worked out well for them.
So, while not a "proof," it seems to me that a hand-wringing "yokes are dangerous" approach is maybe less than warranted?

Respectfully,

James

You have heard from multiple people that have experienced or seen Oring extrusion. This is very serious failure. Just because yokes don't shear off at the drop of a hat doesn't mean that other failure modes are actually not that unusual?

What difference does it make if when you are driving your car if the steering wheel falls off or the front wheels? You loose control either way.

I'm not sure that this thread provides much, if any support for the safety of the yoke connection, particularly in comparison to the DIN. DIN has lotsa disadvantages, but that does not mean it isn't the safest option.

So far, yokes have been safe enough for me, but I would never argue that they are the safest solution.

 

[James79]

You have heard from multiple people that have experienced or seen Oring extrusion. This is very serious failure. Just because yokes don't shear off at the drop of a hat doesn't mean that other failure modes are actually not that unusual?

I did not claim O-ring failures are rare, this poll is purely about one specific failure mode. Yes O-ring failures happen (have had it myself), but they are typically a preventable event (worn/hardened/dryrotted O-ring, worn or damaged sealing surface on reg or tank valve)..... it just wasn't the point of this particular discussion.

So far, yokes have been safe enough for me, but I would never argue that they are the safest solution.

Nor have I argued that the are the safest solution. I am just a fan of making decisions based on facts where possible, and where that isn't possible try to get the best info I can. In my eyes this boils down more to "yokes require more diligence in checking rented tank interfaces" and "when venturing into tech, look to your tech instructors for best practices and explanations of them." I started this thread specifically to look into the veracity of one specific piece of the discussion, though... not to argue which is better or safer as a whole.

Respectfully,

James

 

[Lorenzoid]

So feed the myth, some people love myth to support preconceived notions, have you data to counter anything ?

Even assuming it would fit the definition of "myth" if it were proven untrue, I have not seen enough data to feel comfortable either repeating it to others or dismissing it entirely. Unless one tries to extrapolate from anecdotes about tanks falling over on a boat deck or on land, there just isn't--and will never be--enough data to either support or refute an assertion that yoke reg connections are mechanically insecure enough to get knocked off a tank during a dive.

I use yoke regs for open water diving and DIN regs for cave diving, so I myself will likely never have a data point to contribute.

 

[Lorenzoid]

While I agree that a poll here proves nothing, this poll was started in part due to a certain segment pitching that yokes are terrible with the risk of shearing or dislodging as a primary motivator to not use yokes... to the point that one even commented that we won't get rid of yokes until people just stop buying them. All of this with a general tone that they are just an accident waiting to happen.
My view of "flaw" you address (yoke users typically aren't in an overhead) is that it isn't so much a flaw, as an indicator (combined with the numbers and situations the poll has given us) that most respondents made their decision on yoke vs. DIN based on THEIR use case... and that it has worked out well for them.
So, while not a "proof," it seems to me that a hand-wringing "yokes are dangerous" approach is maybe less than warranted?

Respectfully,

James

I completely agree, James. I recall the thread that was the inspiration for this poll.

 

[johndiver999]

..
So, while not a "proof," it seems to me that a hand-wringing "yokes are dangerous" approach is maybe less than warranted?

Respectfully,

James

Not to be argumentative, but what do you mean when you seem to make the assertion: "concluding that yokes are dangerous is less than warranted"?

If we wanted to know how dangerous yoke connections are we would have to compare the numerical incidence of any failure versus no failure for the use of yokes.

Since that was not the methodology, but rather collecting anecdotal failure reports, many of which would not be possible with a DIN, it seems we have identified some of the characteristic failure modes of the device and also conclude that shearing off is not one of them.

However, since some (at least) of these failure modes were not possible with DIN, it does naturally point people in thinking about making comparisons between the two options, yes?

 

[James79]

Not to be argumentative, but what do you mean when you seem to make the assertion: "concluding that yokes are dangerous is less than warranted"?

If we wanted to know how dangerous yoke connections are we would have to compare the numerical incidence of any failure versus no failure for the use of yokes.

Since that was not the methodology, but rather collecting anecdotal failure reports, many of which would not be possible with a DIN, it seems we have identified some of the characteristic failure modes of the device and also conclude that shearing off is not one of them.

However, since some (at least) of these failure modes were not possible with DIN, it does naturally point people in thinking about making comparisons between the two options, yes?

I suppose some connotation or emotional loading was lost in the typing. I suppose I should have typed it as "YoKeS aRe DaNgErOuS" to get the full effect. All diving is dangerous (to varying degrees). I specifically said that I feel a "Hand-wringing" statement of "yokes are dangerous" isn't warranted... the implication of "hand-wringing" being getting overly worked up over it. Akin to "split fins will kill you" and "you must be in BPW to dive in trim".
While anecdotal, the overall gist I got is that yoke regs do have failure modes that DIN doesn't... but again, to specify the risk of dislodging or shearing the yoke off as such a great danger as to avoid them in general is the attitude I have seen by some and led me to start this poll. And I stand by my above stated opinion... which is just that, my opinion after gathering more (albeit anecdotal) evidence.
And again, the poll isn't about the comparison of which is better... just trying to isolate one factor.

Respectfully,

James