HID vs LED for night diving

[UrbanJungle1966]

Ok so I am only a novice but we are only talking about night diving and I only use LED. So first off I went need lots of light so bought an EBAY 3000 lumen torch. Basically 3 x T6 Cree LED with an ok lense. OMG it was like a lazer beam which cut the poor fish in half. Anyway that is now my backup light if things go wrong or I get a bit lost. Also most of the creatures I wanted to see saw me coming a mile away and hid. It is truly an awesome light. On land it basically floodlights a football oval.

I use as my primary light a single T5 Cree LED light which is about 800lm and even that is a little bit too bright for some things. More than bright enough for what I want to do. Hate to say it but it cost me about $10. Gives me about 80 minutes and has 4 AA batteries.

For me less light is best when diving at night. I figure if you want to dive at night and take a flood light with you so you can see a massive area why not just do it in the day.

 

[Dive-aholic]

Cons: Does not have the same punch in low vis
Does not have, as far as I have seen, user replaceable lights (diodes)
In certain lights you can see a flicker in the video as the batteries decrease

The LEDs I'm using have the same if not better punch than the HIDs I've used. The video above is proof of this.
The diodes last so long I don't see why you would ever need to replace them.
I've not seen the flicker but the lights I use have such long burn times I've never seen them decrease. I got 2.25 hours of burn time on one battery with 2 LED4500 heads on it. The battery is "rated" for 4 hours with 1 head. Never dimmed on me. I've gone 4 days using my LED1500 with my TT3 battery. The TT3 is rated to over 10 hours with the LED1500 but it probably gets closer to 15.

 

[ams511]

I would think in 5 years, HID lamps will go the way of halogen lamps (remember those?). Hopefully someone will start making inexpensive light head upgrades for the older HID lights out there.

 

[TONY CHANEY]

The LEDs I'm using have the same if not better punch than the HIDs I've used. The video above is proof of this.
The diodes last so long I don't see why you would ever need to replace them.
I've not seen the flicker but the lights I use have such long burn times I've never seen them decrease. I got 2.25 hours of burn time on one battery with 2 LED4500 heads on it. The battery is "rated" for 4 hours with 1 head. Never dimmed on me. I've gone 4 days using my LED1500 with my TT3 battery. The TT3 is rated to over 10 hours with the LED1500 but it probably gets closer to 15.

Come on Rob. This was not about which lights we prefer but just the ins and outs (pros and cons) of LED vs HID. You say, in the video (which I really only see one picture) is proof of this. OK it really lights of the cave but it is a flood light nonetheless. If I were behind you, you would see my light much more deeper into the cave. It will not light up the peripheral areas, without the video reflector, as well but it has great punch. My non focusable 10 watt HID has about 6 degrees...pretty tight. So are your 900 lumen seac r10 able to focus to a tight degree? That is true question in that I am not that well versed on them.

I agree that the diodes will last for a very, very long time. I was just stating the fact that I don't believe that they can be changed. Nothing more and nothing less.

Now I have two Big Blue 1800 video lights that have a 120 degree beam. If I want to tighten the beam I have to change out the lens (on dry land) that will make them about 80 degree beams.

I really enjoy the lighter weight to burn time ratio with the LEDs. The LEDs will dim if left on over time. When I got the Big Blue lights I charged them up, placed then in water and let them burn almost all the way down. I think that it was over 7 hours!

As for the flicker on video situation it really has to do with the frames per second as the burn time is decreasing. It seems to happen more often with LED lights that are a simple off or on choice and not as prevelant in the LED lights that have brightness selections. But please don't take my word for it...just do the Google search. Here is a good one David Satz - Gaffer, Lighting Designer - About flicker problems .

Again I embrace all types of lights and I was just trying to "shed some light" (pun intended) on the subject.

 

[undrwater]

If you're diving in poor vis, HID deserves a look if money is no object. Ban for buck wise, you can't beat LED.

I, however, prefer the quality of light generated by the HID.

 

[MRTdiver]

just a quick comment...

The flicker we sometimes see in LED lights under video is from PWM (pulse width modulation). Some LED lights don't have any PWM on High, but very often on lower brightness levels the driver uses PWM to "dim" the light and based on the PWM frequency will make it more or less dim.

Some lights use current regulation which makes the light dimmer without PWM.

 

[Dive-aholic]

Come on Rob. This was not about which lights we prefer but just the ins and outs (pros and cons) of LED vs HID. You say, in the video (which I really only see one picture) is proof of this. OK it really lights of the cave but it is a flood light nonetheless. If I were behind you, you would see my light much more deeper into the cave. It will not light up the peripheral areas, without the video reflector, as well but it has great punch. My non focusable 10 watt HID has about 6 degrees...pretty tight. So are your 900 lumen seac r10 able to focus to a tight degree? That is true question in that I am not that well versed on them.

Yes, the r10 is easily seen. But that wasn't the one I was referring to. Take a look at the video link in post #9 at about 3:15. You will see two lights there. One is HID and one is LED. Not all LEDs have a focus problem. Here's another video to check out. Both divers are using LED canister lights.

German Invasion on Hole in the Wall on Vimeo

 

[TONY CHANEY]

Yes, the r10 is easily seen. But that wasn't the one I was referring to. Take a look at the video link in post #9 at about 3:15. You will see two lights there. One is HID and one is LED. Not all LEDs have a focus problem. Here's another video to check out. Both divers are using LED canister lights. German Invasion on Hole in the Wall on Vimeo

Thanks for the link Rob. It has been a while since I saw that video. I don't know the other gentleman but Oliver is one hech of a nice guy and a caver as well. Great video BTW.
So we are talking about the TillyTec 3000-S3 and the 4500-light head made by former Green Force designer Thomas Tilly right? That is a very, very large amount of light coupled with a very high price tag. From you site, 1,510.00 for the 3000-S3. That is about as expensive as a 50 watt Light Monkey. In the video from post #9 what were the lights being compared?
I know what you are saying and I know that you became a dealer, the first in the US I think, because you liked them so much.

---------- Post added February 19th, 2014 at 03:00 PM ----------

While that's true when compared to most LEDs, it's not true for all. Take a look at this video.

Dive in a Mexico Cave on Vimeo

One of the lights in the video is HID and the other is LED. You can see a good comparison of the two at 3:11. I won't tell you which is which.

Very nice dive!

 

[scubastingray]

I don't think this is as complicated as everyone is trying to make it out to be. LED's are superior in every way.

The hobbyist aquarium field has gone through/is going through a similar revolution in which reef aquariums are switching to LEDs for power savings, more intense light, less heat, etc.

It sounds like some of you are confusing the optics in front of a lighting element with the light type. Optics can be changed.

 

[Dive-aholic]

Thanks for the link Rob. It has been a while since I saw that video. I don't know the other gentleman but Oliver is one hech of a nice guy and a caver as well. Great video BTW.
So we are talking about the TillyTec 3000-S3 and the 4500-light head made by former Green Force designer Thomas Tilly right? That is a very, very large amount of light coupled with a very high price tag. From you site, 1,510.00 for the 3000-S3. That is about as expensive as a 50 watt Light Monkey. In the video from post #9 what were the lights being compared?
I know what you are saying and I know that you became a dealer, the first in the US I think, because you liked them so much.

Yes, those lights are the 3000-S3 and the 4500. The 1500 is equivalent to the Light Monkey 21 watt (on their site they state the 21 watt has 1500 lumens of output). I've compared them side by side and the LED1500 appears to be a little brighter. Comparing the 2, the LED1500 is much less. Also, the LED3000-S3 is currently $1359, which is about how much the LM 20-21 retails for.

The two lights in the video in post 9 are a Tilly LED3000-S3 and a DR 35 watt.