How do you other boatowners deal with the delicate subject of money and divers?

[Wookie]

Not quite.

The language in the definition exempting "a voluntary sharing of the actual expenses of the voyage, by monetary contribution or donation of fuel, food, beverage, or other supplies" clarifies the requirement that "consideration" (i.e., anything of value) must be "contributed as a condition of carriage on the vessel" for them to become "for hire."

Asking for voluntary contributions after the voyage is over cannot, by definition, be a condition of carriage because the carriage has already been completed. Even asking in advance would probably be OK so long as the phrasing was such that it was clear that payment was not determinative of whether they'd be taken out: something like "Once we're back at the dock a voluntary contribution of $20 per person to cover the actual expenses of the trip, mainly gas, is common and would be greatly appreciated" should pass muster.

It's when your payment is the/a requirement to be taken out and back that the money becomes a "condition." Now, you may not be invited for additional trips if you don't chip in, but that doesn't matter in terms of what were the conditions for going on the trip you just went on.

I doubt it would go to the ALJ unless 1) an operator complained, which they wouldn't do unless the boat owner were very bold and advertising, or 2) someone (one of the contributors) was butthurt for some reason and turned the boat owner in.

I've seen share cost rides, especially on the spear chat boards, and really, no one cares. I'd love to get a trip to middle grounds where I didn't have 19 of my buddies all competing to see who shot the biggest fish, where I could learn something and only have to spend a grand for fuel.

 

[MrChen]

If I was on your private boat, I'd pitch in for gas and help clean up afterwards. How much to pitch in, couldn't tell ya. $20? $40? Lets hit the fuel dock, split it, and get diving. So it sounds like you need some new dive buddies Here I am!

 

[Nemrod]

You can split fuel, launch fee etc. Just as in private aviation, you can share cost of fuel and incidentals.

I rarely ask anyone out on my little boat. For one thing it is too little, and another, I get tired of people beating the boat up or complaining. And right now, she is pretty much in dry dock.

I can hit 5 MPG or close. The tank hold 65 gallons, that is right at $300 at $4.00/gallon (marine fuel). If somebody can offer me only $20 then just do not bother. I am generally of a mind, when I do ask someone along, I pay the way.

N

 

[dmoore19]

If the discussion needs to take place then you should find some different friends.

 

[Stoo]

This is a great topic... Can we forward it somehow to our cheap friends?

My boat is small, (a 20' RIB) and pretty fuel efficient, so I don't normally take more than a couple of friends out, and rarely that. When I do, they really are "friends", and I refuse their occasional offers of cash. I do this for a couple of reasons... First, as I said, they're friends. The boat is going out with me in it anyway, and the additional cost to carry them is peanuts. Beyond that, most people have no idea the cost of gas, so when they used to offer $20, it wasn't enough to get us out of the harbour.

The second reason, I don't take money is that 90% of the time I take someone out, they are also staying at my house in Tobermory! So do I charge them a portion of the taxes and power bill too? No... because they are friends.

However, I will happily send them to the grocery store or the Boozery to get wine or beer, and they always seem happy to do that. No one expects that I provide booze and food for them, when they are "frequent flyers".

One of the friends who is up often, has his own boat, and he brought up an interesting point related to this. Here's an example: On occasion, I tow my boat "someplace" to dive. I can think of several weekends where I towed (with a Tahoe) about 250 miles each way to dive in the St. Lawrence. The gas involved to operate the boat was reasonable... maybe $100 for a couple of days... But the cost to to fuel up the Tahoe and pull a 4500# boat close to 500 miles is VERY significant.

As a marginally employed (by choice) guy, I am starting to reassess by "generosity" and when "acquaintances" ask about fuel, I am going to try to give them an honest answer. I figure one of two things will happen... either they will pay up (Win!) or they will stop cluttering up my boat with all of their crap! (Also win!)

 

[Dr. Lecter]

most people have no idea the cost of gas, so when they used to offer $20, it wasn't enough to get us out of the harbour

Let's say you're paying $5 a gallon for gas and have a couple friends going out. They each offer up $20 for gas, covering 8 gallons of fuel between them. What MPG are you getting for your tiny RIB that 8 gallons of gas isn't enough to make a round trip of any length anyone would want to ride in a RIB?

[Edit]Whoops, just saw we're talking about Canada, where gas is more like $5 a liter. Carry on, my overtaxed northern neighbor.[/Edit]

 

[Adventure-Ocean]

I owned my own boats and had a license to charter. If I invited friends out, we talk about what kind of day it would be such as how many dives, food, drinks, etc. Normally I'd bring the boat and my gear and they brought the rest. If I'm just taking people diving I'd have an agreement of money before leaving the dock. Adventure-Ocean

 

[TMHeimer]

Not a boat owner and no knowledge on the legalities of private boats with "friend" passengers. Leaving that aside, I would treat it like getting a ride in a car. Everyone else but the owner splits gas. Everyone feeds themselves. Owner absorbs car wear & tear--he has to get there and eat anyway. I always offered to pay ALL the gas when riding with a good freind but he always refused, paying for some himself--I felt a little guilty, as I wasn't wearing my own car out.

 

[Morning Dive]

an inscribed emblem on the dash "This boat doesn't run on thanks!"

 

[clownfishsydney]

In our club, members who have boats require a voluntary contribution towards fuel for the boat and car and oil for the outboard. The ten boatowners (trailerable boats) mostly dive at least once a week. Of them, a number are retired. As such, if they had to pay for the fuel for dive trips, then they would not be able to take the boat out. Then our members would not get to boat dive (there are now no dive charter boats in the area we mostly dive). If a person did not want to contribute, then they will not get invited back. Our boatowners are not rich, so this is the only way it will work.

I know from experience (I am one of the owners) that this is the only way I would be able to run the boat as often as I do. As there are no fuel docks to visit and I refuel from drums, there is no way to work out the exact cost per trip. Therefore, we have all agreed that a set donation be required per trip. The money given to me sometimes exceeds the actual cost (say a short trip with a full boat) but at other times (long runs with minimum crew) does not go anywhere near meeting my cost.

The boat owner is providing the car, the boat, the gear on the boat (in my case oxygen for deco on deep dives), washing as well as setting up, washing, refueling and carrying out routine maintenance, all the divers are doing is throwing in a few dollars. The amount that I get is about 1/3 what a dive charter boat charges for a dive. Therefore, everyone is a winner. And if someone thinks "that is why there are no dive charter boats", our boat ownership in the club only increased after the dive charter boat numbers dropped from 3 to 2 to 1 to zero in our area.