How many dives did you have when you did AOW

[Guba]

In education, we're always wanting the "perfect world".
I agree that a "better" system would be to have a OW course that is more complete, more comprehensive, and with a higher skill level, followed by a truly Advanced second course, thus doing away with the often superfluous AOW we now have.
However, from the training agency's point of view (along with the manufacturer's and possibly the LDS hosts) it's important to remember the clientele profile. An extremely large percentage of people who currently get their OW do not dive only a couple of years later. That means the OW course has served a purpose. It introduced people to the sport and gave them the means to see if it was something they wanted to continue pursuing. If they do, then fine, they move up to the current AOW course and, hopefully, later to the more significant Rescue Diver.
What we all have to remember is that all of us here on SB are in the "other" percentage. We decided to stay with the sport and grow into it. We don't see the need for the introductory course because we were hooked on diving early and never looked back. For that significant portion of population that took the peek and then backed out the door, though, it probably saved them time, resources, and effort.
(Okay, I'm going to play the devil's advocate to my own rationale...some will say that IF those folks had had better training, they might have stuck with it. I recognize the argument, but personally doubt its validity. The folks I've had contact with whose diving career was short got out for the simplist of reasons. They decided it wasn't for them and quickly decided not to invest more money and time into it.)

 

[The Horn]

However, from the training agency's point of view (along with the manufacturer's and possibly the LDS hosts) it's important to remember the clientele profile. An extremely large percentage of people who currently get their OW do not dive only a couple of years later. That means the OW course has served a purpose. It introduced people to the sport and gave them the means to see if it was something they wanted to continue pursuing. If they do, then fine, they move up to the current AOW course and, hopefully, later to the more significant Rescue Diver.

Thats great except that for alot of the folks who HAVE stuck with it and gained experience and practice from diving: AOW has become a waste of time and money. It is not that challenging but

from the training agency's point of view (along with the manufacturer's and possibly the LDS hosts)

its necessary to throw away time and money to get this card THEY say you need.

As I mentioned earlier.....what about this log book we keep? I stopped keeping track in 95 or so and then started the log back up in 2004 because certain charters were asking for advanced cards to do deeper dives, OK fair enough I'll go take the training........then I wonder why as I had taken all this in my OW, I AM practicing and reading up on new things, I just pizzed away two weekends and $400.

I should be able to take a log book in and say, "here, I have this experience, might I have a go at the Rescue course, DM etc".

It would be nice to hear: "yes sir, things look in order, please complete this written test and an Instructor will join you in the pool shortly" or however you want to picture it.

I guess, however, what it boils down to is the guy with the same drivers license as you is an looney on the road and there is not much you can do but suck it up.:no

 

[all4scuba05]

54 Logged dives....I say logged, because I had dove for years before certifying and had been to 90ft. before ever certifying...but, rescue diver is a course that was a BIG eye opener.
I agree with many posts here that mention combining OW, AOW and RESCUE into
Basic Open Water.......

I agree with this idea. Matter of fact make it those 3 courses in 3 months, not 3 nights, 30 dives not 3 dives, and if possible for $30. Am I asking for too much?

 

[mikerault]

At 80+ dives before my AOW I had done night dives, wreck dives, deep dives, photo dives, cavern dives, drift dives, limited viz dives, cold water dives so was there much the class really taught me? No, however it did provide confirmation that the skills I was learning were valid.

 

[boulderjohn]

I disagree. AOW is a joke. It's important to get a better OW course and to follow it with a real Advanced class and skip AOW entirely.

I agree that the OW-AOW-Rescue sequence should be redesigned.

What follows is partly theory, but it is based upon some real information. I believe that the whole AOW problem started with its inception. From what I have read, it did not come about as part of a long term, comprehensive plan. I read a story this summer that the original navigation requirements came about because some guy wanted more information on navigation, and the instructor made up the requirements while he was teaching him. (OK, what will I have him do next?) The original model for the entire AOW was based upon other organizations that have distinct stages of learning, including specifically Boy Scouts.

OK, what's the first "advanced" level after the initial ranks in Boy Scouts. (Answer: Star Scout) What does it take to become a Star Scout? (Answer: 5 merit badges--sound familiar?)

If AOW is indeed, as I theorize, based on a merit badge model, then I see that as a fundamental flaw. It is too easy in such a model to skip important learning. Some of the merit badges are really not worth the effort. Let's face it, "boat diving" and "drift diving" do not teach you a whole lot that's valuable. There really needs to be some core knowledge in there that is required.

 

[Cheekymonkey]

IMO its a moot point since most AOW classes are simply a sampling of specialties they want to sell you and doesnt really accomplish much at all.

 

[Notso_Ken]

Just curious as to what the dives:cert level ratio is kinda.

AOW at 34

-> edit: Please post the number of dives you had if over 25. cheers.

Beej

I had 4 dives. But then I got 24 dives in my AOW class.

Ken

 

[Redcard]

New divers getting married in Australia then venturing out on the Spirit of Freedom dive boat. We both decided we wanted to dive, so we "dove" into the training. We found that OW didn't really teach us how to dive, just how to kneel on the bottom, pick our own bottom, and clear our mask. So we arranged for AOW and Enriched Air right away.

Leaving Xmas day for our adventure down under.

 

[Benny-c]

Lets not fool ourselves here folks,

There is nothing advanced about Advanced open water:shakehead

When you change Organisation or go on to Rescue Diver you'll realise how in-experienced you are.

 

[RonFrank]

I disagree. AOW is a joke. It's important to get a better OW course and to follow it with a real Advanced class and skip AOW entirely.

Define REAL Advanced class, and how can one skip AOW? I think NAUI takes a different approach than PADI, but I *think* that most (all?) agencies incorporate the concept of AOW in the training, and will require it at some point to go forward past rescue.

Many of the specialties that PADI (for example) can cover are valuable. I don't think anyone will argue that Buoyancy control, or Navigation for example are worthless concepts even if some PADI specialties are fluff.

I guess if one acknowledges that Navigation is worthwhile, the next step is to find an instructor that teaches valuable lessons, and thinks outside of the box.