How much lift is too much lift?

[LeadTurn_SD]

25 is too small and I think Lead turner forgot your pony bottle and extra regualtor in his detailed list

Yep. My bad!

The OP (akivisuals) needs to add the extra negative buoyancy for the full pony and reg.... an Al13, surprisingly, is also almost 2 lbs negative when full, plus maybe 1.5 or 2 lbs for a pony reg; Yes, I think 25 is too small... in my example (without the pony or camera gear, etc.) 24 lbs lift was the hypothetical bare minimum just to give an idea on how to look at the numbers... even without the pony and extra gear I would use a larger wing (32 - 35 lb) with his current wetsuit and weighting.

akivisuals, if you are considering a DSS wing, I'd contact Tobin at Deep Sea Supply directly. He will walk you through the calculations for selecting the correct wing... all I'm doing is encouraging you to work the numbers yourself to get a better feel for what you might need, and for your own peace of mind.

Best wishes.

 

[LowDrag]

I have seen Tobin's BP&W setup first hand. It is pretty cool. The wing can be separated from the backplate and harness without having to remove the harness from the rig.

As for me, I dive dry in the PNW with a Hollis S38 wing and 38 lbs of weight. I am hoping to drop some of that weight when I dive again next month due to losing 20 lbs of body weight over the last month and a half.

 

[akivisuals]

I've spoken with Tobin and he actually recommended the LCD20, but that was before we discussed the stuff I might bring along. It also was without the pony bottle. We discussed that a bit but that led to a whole other conversation that this thread probably doesn't need to tangent off to. He told me to get a real number on my neoprene in the pool to see what wing I might need.

 

[fbk]

Well really there is no such thing as "too much lift"... but there is such a thing as having too big a wing, which wraps around the tank/s, is harder to vent, creates drag, makes handling more cumbersome etc. I dive a 25lb single tank wing and have never not had enough lift. I also have a 35lb DiveRite EXP wing for my rebreather just because the shape suits it better, I probably only ever use a couple of pounds worth of that lift, if any. There is very little difference in size, like everyone has said, if you want some extra safety margin 30-35lb would be ideal.

 

[Ouvea]

Hello:

You want enough lift to float your rig with a bit safety margin, just in case you start carrying extra equipment. You do the math and just calculate the negative buoyancy of your equipment.

DSS Stainless Steel Back Plate - ~5lbs
Faber Blue Steel HP 80 - ~8lbs
Regulator (Primary Cylinder)- ~1.5lbs
Luxfer 13cft - ~2.0lbs
Regulator (Secondary Cylinder) - ~1.0lbs
Miscellaneous/Safety Margin - ~3lbs

Total Negative Buoyancy at Beginning of Dive - ~20.5lbs
Total Negative Buoyancy at End of Dive - ~14lbs

That twenty pounds may work at the end of the dive but it's a bit short at the beginning. I probably would consider the DSS Torus 26 or the Torus 35. The Torus 26 will work fine if you carry your weights on a weight belt. If you start carrying weight on the rig, you will need a wing of greater lift capacity. I do see a lot of divers in my area (Monterey/Carmel) that use 30lbs Oxycheq or Halcyon wings.

O.

 

[KevinNM]

LeadTurn_SD mentioned this, but it's important. The other issue, apart from the wing size, is to make certain you have enough droppable weight so you can swim the rig up from maximum depth if the wing fails. And yes, your very expensive camera is droppable in this circumstance - if you don't want to have to consider that you should ensure you can swim it up too, and rearrange your gear if needed so you are not so negative. PM danvolker and ask about the Divers Supply triple fatality if you want a horror story about what can go wrong with steel tanks and wetsuits.

 

[NAM001]

To the OP

look at your set up and take the worse situation you can imagine you being in. like full tank 7mm suit at 100 feet with max suit compression and figure the neg buoyancy. then add min 10# to that number. that will take care of you. You may want to have some extra buoyancy for your buddy if his wing fails. So here are the numbers.

BP -6 regs -5 full tank -10 7mm wet suit that needs 15 #@ to get down with. (-13 when compressed at 100 ft). that is worse case -34 at 100 ft. So you need min a 34# wing. as you come up to 20 ft the only thing that changes is the compression of the suit and that will be now -1 so at 20 ft you have -22 buoyancy. At that point you have if you got the 35# wing the extra 10# reserve buoyancy to hold your head out of the water when you inflate at the surface.

Now say you don't wear a set suit you still have the -6 and -5 and the -10 once again that is -22 neg so you add 10 and get 32 needed wing lift. The thinner the suit the less wing you need to comp for suit compression.

I use a 3/2 shorty which is 9 lift so I put on 9 lead. at septh the suit is now -9 add the -6 and the -5 and the -10 for air and you are back to -30 at 100 ft... as at 20' before it is -24 so the 30# gives the extra to hold the head above water with a full tank.

Now when I put on the lavacore I loose all suit lift and the surface is same as 100' so I am -6 -5 -10 and the 30# wing still works cause I don't need any lead to comp for the suit buoyancy. Recently I found out this does not work with the lavacore cause with my 8" tanks the wing cant inflate to full 30 only say 25 so there is very little reserve lift for my head with a full tank. I now have a 40# wing when I use the lavacore and the lp120 tank which goes to -12 or so instead of -10.

Not enough wing and you cant hold your self up. to much wing and the bubble runs from front to back and you have difficulty holding trim.

The wing needs to

float our gear with you not wearing it.
float you on the surface wearing your gear with your head out of the water

compensate for suit compression.

regards

 

[akivisuals]

This morning I bought a used Halcyon BP with harness off of ebay for relatively cheap and am now looking for a wing to match it with. I'm considering pairing it with a DiveRite Voyager since 35 lbs. of lift seems to be a good number based on a few responses here. Anyone know if they work together well? I've read where people call the Voyager "floppy". Wondering if I should look at something a bit more streamlined and narrower like the DSS LCD30 or Torus35. Their length is what concerns me though since I dive very short Steel HP80s and don't want pinch flats on the bottom of my wing.

 

[ams511]

The LCD wing is a horseshoe style so it does not have an air tube on the bottom. This may help prevent pinch flats. Dive Rite wings have the "crosshair" pattern so I would assume they would match up with any plate as long as it has slots. If not then then you will need to use a single tank adapter.

 

[halocline]

I'd be a little cautious about getting any dive rite wing for single tank other than the travel wing, unless they've really changed their designs. Dive rite wings tend to be pretty big for the stated lift IME. I also don't believe there's much of a standard in lift ratings vs what the wing will actually provide when it's mounted on a tank.

I'd think about a halcyon 30lb single tank wing or oxycheq or DSS 30. There's very little difference in apparent size between Tobin's 20 lb and 30 lb wings, and I think he's a little more accurate with his lift ratings than some of the other manufacturers. I'd be VERY surprised if you really needed 40 lbs of lift. I use a dive rite rec wing on my doubles, it has (I think) 45lbs of lift and to me it's enormous. I'd never use something like that on a single tank.