how to achieve better buoyancy control?

[IndigoBlue]

Not trying to ride you... but.

Just in case this actually -does- get them to sink.. there is no guarantee that they don't have too much weight in their rig.

Thats true too. But then, he would have another totally different problem, being that his rig would be too heavy to begin with. A problem that is quite unlikely, as long as he stays away from a backplate (non-ditchable weight) to begin with.

You do not meet too many beginner divers who have gone down the road of a backplate, however. And if they have, well guess who should probably help them out of their problem with excess un-ditchable weight?

 

[Snowbear]

...totally different problem, being that his rig would be too heavy to begin with. A problem that is quite unlikely, as long as he stays away from a backplate (non-ditchable weight) to begin with.

Huh?
A backplate does not automatically make a rig too heavy. If anything, it stabilizes the rig and can even make achieving that sweet, sweet balance and trim a bit easier.

You do not meet too many beginner divers who have gone down the road of a backplate, however.

That's too bad, actually. I wish I had been introduced to a BP sooner than I was... like in OW training, maybe

p.s. - rufous - hopefully you are figuring out that though there is a tremendous amount of excellent information on the internet, you need to use discretion when it comes to filtering through and putting to use the information you receive.

 

[Mountaindiver]

Rufous,
hang in there baby! We have all struggled with both wieghting and boyancy. The practice pool can be your friend. If you don't have very good access to a pool, try talking with the manager at a local motel with a pool. You might be suprized at the results, they are usually empty most of the mornings. The fact that you are using rental gear (summized from your last post) is probably not helping eather as it's different each time. Take some extra time to make really good notes in your dive log so you can figure out what helps and what does'nt. If you can, find a dive buddy that is understanding and willing to help you with these skills, then do some very specific, easy dives only for the purpose of working on these skills. Lastly, it took me a while to figure out that a little shot of air in my bcd will require a little time to have it's full affect, so make small adjustments and give them a chance to take affect.
Keep at it and after 30 or 40 dives you won't even think about it anymore.
Good luck, Rob

 

[rufous]

p.s. - rufous - hopefully you are figuring out that though there is a tremendous amount of excellent information on the internet, you need to use discretion when it comes to filtering through and putting to use the information you receive.

Snowbear, yes I am seeing that. Thanks though for bringing it out in the open. Clearly some who reply (not necessarily to this post but in general) will not have much more experience than me but just like to see their own words/thoughts in print. Others will have what seems to be a good idea but might not be the best way still or the safest. Then there are some issues that have more than one equally good and safe way to do it. Then some are ultra safe which is good in this sport. Brian.

 

[njrn2]

p.s. - rufous - hopefully you are figuring out that though there is a tremendous amount of excellent information on the internet, you need to use discretion when it comes to filtering through and putting to use the information you receive.

Isn't this a fact of life? You have to filter everything until you come up with a solution that works for you.

I also wanted to thank everyone for the advice. I will be able to sort through this information and and see what works for me.

Thanks,

 

[IndigoBlue]

Huh?
A backplate does not automatically make a rig too heavy. If anything, it stabilizes the rig and can even make achieving that sweet, sweet balance and trim a bit easier.
That's too bad, actually. I wish I had been introduced to a BP sooner than I was... like in OW training, maybe

p.s. - rufous - hopefully you are figuring out that though there is a tremendous amount of excellent information on the internet, you need to use discretion when it comes to filtering through and putting to use the information you receive.

I hope Rufous did not get sidetracked by your sidetracking, Snowbear. Because there really are a lot of divers on Scubaboard with a lot of good advice, and then there is you, Snowbear, who would apparently lash an newby into a backplate and add another 6 or 7 lbs of non-ditchable weight to him/her.

 

[Snowbear]

... add another 6 or 7 lbs of non-ditchable weight to him/her.

Well, just moving the weight around a bit. Or if you prefer, use an aluminum backplate. Most people with a single tank on a SS BP, especially diving dry or in a heavy wetsuit will still need a few pounds on the weight belt in addition to the BP, so if ditchable weight is so important to you, it seems reasonable to put it in ditchable form. There is a new dive shop in town that is starting the OW students in DiveRite transpacs for the pool and transplates for OW. The students are taking to them just fine. Students are also introduced the a drysuit in the pool and all OW checkout dives are in a drysuit.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I hope Rufous did not get sidetracked by your sidetracking, Snowbear. Because there really are a lot of divers on Scubaboard with a lot of good advice, and then there is you, Snowbear, who would apparently lash an newby into a backplate and add another 6 or 7 lbs of non-ditchable weight to him/her.

Not sure I'm understanding where this comment is coming from. Going from a BCD to a BP isn't adding weight ... if the BP is six lbs negative, you get to remove that from your weightbelt. So it's a wash, in terms of what you're carrying.

Given that newbies tend to use more weight than "normally" needed, I don't see that having those six lbs non-ditchable is really all that important. What's more important, IMO, is how the weight gets distributed.

Considering how many newbies I see wearing tank weights ... due mainly to the fact that they just can't handle any more on their hips (or stuff any more into their integrated weight pockets), I don't really see where it's an issue.

Furthermore, I agree with Snowbear that a backplate usually makes it easier for the new diver to find a "sweet spot", trim-wise ... since it puts that weight right over your "built-in BCD".

Given all that ... I'm not at all sure where you're coming from. Care to explain why you think it's such a bad idea?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MikeFerrara]

I hope Rufous did not get sidetracked by your sidetracking, Snowbear. Because there really are a lot of divers on Scubaboard with a lot of good advice, and then there is you, Snowbear, who would apparently lash an newby into a backplate and add another 6 or 7 lbs of non-ditchable weight to him/her.

I gotta wonder where this stuff comes from.

I put new divers in back plates and it's a monster improvement over a bc. All our classes are done wearing 1/4 inch suits so divers need a significant amount of weight.

When all that weight is piled on the hips it just stands the divers up in the water. You can watch hundreds of students around here on a summer weekend and not a single one will be anywhere near horizontal. They need some of that weight higher up.

The back plate is a big help in developing trim although I'll admit it's possible without. The plate puts 6 pounds of that weight close to the body and up with the bc...exactly where many need the weight to be.

As far as ditchable weight, there's no reason that a recreational diver with a light rig and a buoyant suit needs all their weight to be ditchable. In fact judging by the number of students I've seen pop to the surface, the number of weight pouches I find on the bottom and the number of students without hips that I've seen have weightbelts slide off, I'd even say it's dangerous.

In addition a plate and harness provide a very stable platform for the tank which is what it's really there for.

 

[ArcticDiver]

Yes there is a lot of good informtion on this Board and others. But, the people who scuba dive, like those who do most adventuresome activities, are very passionate about Their Way. So, it gets to be a job to filter through all the passion to get the kernal info that pertains to you.

This is what I recommend:
-First, decide just how much you want to, can afford to, dive. If you can only do it once a year while on holiday then you need to be satisfied with a rather low level of performance. To be safe you need then to limit your dives to minimize the chances of overwhelming yourself. Lots of folks do this very happily. But, if you can dive a lot then there are other things in my opinion you can and should do to make you a happier and better diver.

Buy your own gear. There are arguements about what kind, brand, etc of gear to buy. You'll figure out on your own just what is best for you. But, to get comfortable and good you need the same, reliable gear every time you dive. Plus, once you spend the money on first class gear you'll want to dive to use your investment.

Find an instructor whose personality is compatible with your own. Pay that instructor to give you a series of lessons on the basics and to take you to the point you can learn from your own mistakes.

Remember, the depth limits on your certification cards are not law. They are guides to help keep you safe. No one is going to come arrest you for going to 100' on an OW Cert Card. So, let your comfort and the situation dictate whether or not you do a particular dive. You'll find that as you adventure out, always keeping in mind that you and no one else is responsible for your safety, your diving skill will improve .

Next, dive, dive, dive. Dive with everyone you can. I always learn something from people I dive with. Sometimes it is what not to do. But, most times it is something I can use.

Last, never forget you, and no other person, are the final authority on what is and is not safe. Never be bashful about not diving with someone you aren't comfortable with, or doing a dive you aren't happy about. I've turned down dive buddies and I've aborted dives because things weren't going in a way I was happy about. Notice I didn't say "comfortable" here. If you never challenge yourself, you'll never improve. The magic is knowing what is a challenge and what is unsafe for you.

These are just my thoughts. They work for me. Maybe they'll work for you. Maybe they are gold. Maybe they are worth just what they cost, essentially nothing. You decide.