How to Learn about DIR?

[PfcAJ]

I love it when people who haven't taken a GUE class know that fundies isn't for someone unless they want to progress to caves.

 

[LiteHedded]

I dive a Transpac, I love it, I know DIR divers that switched to Transpacs and vice versa. It all depends on you. Nothing about a Transpac is DIR other than it's not a jacket. The D-rings are quite movable, I just readjusted mine last night actually, the padding is removable, and the extra straps can be cut.
I haven't done the last two because I don't see a need. Paratroopers go under a lot more stress with their harnesses than we do and they still use quick releases and harnesses quite similar to the Transpac.

I wouldn't buy any gear until you get through a course or dive with a mentor. You need to walk around in both a Transpac and a DIR harness with tanks and dive with them before you pick one or the other.

If you do fundies, let the instructor know you're more interested in getting the basic diving skills established rather than passing the course. This might change his direction with the course or may recommend just running through a couple private sessions with him/her first.

Chickdiver was mentioned, she's not GUE, but dives with WKPP or at least used to... and still teaches somewhat. She's NAUI though. Any cave instructor will really help you, doesn't have to be GUE, they ONLY do DIR diving, the other cave divers may have different preferences as far as quick releases, allowing you to use transpacs *which as mentioned is NOT allowed in GUE, which is the main reason why I won't take their classes, other is not allowing quick releases which makes some ocean dives dangerous for those of us that can't get out of a HOG harness quickly* and various other things. Just weigh your options. If you aren't interested in cave, fundies may not be for you. Getting a mentor or few private sessions from a GUE instructor then finding a DIR type buddy will be more beneficial for you since it can be worked out over a longer period of time.

for example. Take one day with an instructor. Get your gear figured out and have the breast stroke kick emphasized. Go PRACTICE-you will NEVER get better at buoyancy and trim and propulsion from listening to anyone, you have to go out and do it. After say 10-20 dives *preferably with a cave diver or DIR type*, go back to the instructor and show him your progress and have him evaluate you. He'll give you pointers that you can work on. After another 10-20 dives, do the same thing. After that take fundies or a cavern course with that instructor and get those skills up. Progress as far as desired

what is the breast stroke kick?

and how does a one piece harness make ocean diving more dangerous?

 

[Mr Carcharodon]

and how does a one piece harness make ocean diving more dangerous?

He's saying a BP/W is hard to remove at the surface. That's only the case if you over-inflate the wing. This reminds me of an instructor who insisted that a long hose was dangerous for open water since it could lead to strangulation and would impede air sharing. Some of the gear takes some instruction to figure out, like about a minute.

I'm looking forward to the breaststroke kick video on YouTube.

 

[LiteHedded]

well it can be cut, for one.
and the cinch system would be acceptable for any gue course and would let you out of it easy enough.

 

[guyharrisonphoto]

Hi, I'm back,

Thanks so much to everyone for the feedback. I did get a copy of "Doing It Right" and have read it through. Lucky for me there is a local shop in Ft. Lauderdale that is into DIR (Brownie's Southport Dive) and they actually "lent" me the book at no charge! Having read the book, I will be definitely planning the Fundies class as soon as I can, but I need to arrange it so I can do it on evenings and weekends as opposed to taking five full days off work. The DIR philosophy is right up my alley.

They had Halcyon gear which I tried on at the shop. I did love the complete freedom, That is the way to go! When I tried on jackets, or even back inflate BCs from regular manufacturers, they felt like straight-jackets by comparison!! The shop also had a long-hose setup, which the best thing I had ever seen for air sharing. For my open-ocean diving the 7' hose was a bit much but they had a 5' that seemed just right.

I do have a question--what is the DIR take on combined inflator/regulator rigs for me to use after I hand off my primary? The book did not say and the shop said that some people had bought the Halcyon rig with the inflator/octo and some did not.

I did notice that the halcyon rig weighed heavy in the middle of the back (might not be so good for my wife who has some lower back disc issues) and the shoulder straps dug in. I know that will probably disappear in the water but would probably be uncomforable on a boat in choppy water . . . I will also go look at a Transpac to see if it really gets the weight down around the hips. Again I am lucky in that Brownies rents the Halcyon rigs and another shop rents the dive rite rigs so I can actually dive them before I decide what to buy.

I do not need all the bells, whistles, D rings etc that are on the transpac, but the concept (similar to backpacking) of getting the weight on the hips is something I want to at least look at.

I've learned a lot from these posts, the book, and the web links from everyone. I just want to say thanks.

Guy

 

[Cave Diver]

Hi, I'm back,

Thanks so much to everyone for the feedback. I did get a copy of "Doing It Right" and have read it through. Lucky for me there is a local shop in Ft. Lauderdale that is into DIR (Brownie's Southport Dive) and they actually "lent" me the book at no charge! Having read the book, I will be definitely planning the Fundies class as soon as I can, but I need to arrange it so I can do it on evenings and weekends as opposed to taking five full days off work. The DIR philosophy is right up my alley.

They had Halcyon gear which I tried on at the shop. I did love the complete freedom, That is the way to go! When I tried on jackets, or even back inflate BCs from regular manufacturers, they felt like straight-jackets by comparison!! The shop also had a long-hose setup, which the best thing I had ever seen for air sharing. For my open-ocean diving the 7' hose was a bit much but they had a 5' that seemed just right.

I do have a question--what is the DIR take on combined inflator/regulator rigs for me to use after I hand off my primary? The book did not say and the shop said that some people had bought the Halcyon rig with the inflator/octo and some did not.

I did notice that the halcyon rig weighed heavy in the middle of the back (might not be so good for my wife who has some lower back disc issues) and the shoulder straps dug in. I know that will probably disappear in the water but would probably be uncomforable on a boat in choppy water . . . I will also go look at a Transpac to see if it really gets the weight down around the hips. Again I am lucky in that Brownies rents the Halcyon rigs and another shop rents the dive rite rigs so I can actually dive them before I decide what to buy.

I do not need all the bells, whistles, D rings etc that are on the transpac, but the concept (similar to backpacking) of getting the weight on the hips is something I want to at least look at.

I've learned a lot from these posts, the book, and the web links from everyone. I just want to say thanks.

Guy

In my opinion, I found the Transpac to be slightly more comfortable out of the water, but much less stable in the water. Diving a backplate with the same wing was much more comfortable to me. There were other drawbacks to the TP which have already been mentioned that I dont care for.

There are also pads that are offered for use with some BP systems that may help the issue for your wife. I've seen some people add padding to the shoulder straps as well. With an exposure suit on I've never found it necessary and even diving in just a T-shirt in tropical water I've been fine. Doubles tend to dig in a bit more and do cause some discomfort.

Personally I don't like the padding on my BP as I find it unnecessary and it takes longer to dry out. Since you have the opportunity to try and dive both, I'd advise you to do so, and keep the feedback you've gotten in mind. Then you can make up your own mind which trade offs work better for you.

Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

If you aren't interested in cave, fundies may not be for you.

Let's establish something ... Fundamentals is not at all about cave diving. It's not even particularly about DIR diving. It was created as a "remedial" class to bring a diver's basic skills up to a point where they could *start* learning how to develop the skills for cave or technical diving.

Any diver ... regardless of the environment they dive in ... can get a lot of benefit from the class, assuming that the DIR approach to diving is where they want to go.

There are no caves where I dive ... but the team concept, the emphasis on fitness, and the gas management skills are immeasureably important for diving in a place where currents and low vis are a way of life, and where you can get crazy deep from shore in a hurry.

If taking a team-oriented approach to diving appeals to you, then Fundies is a great place to start learning what it takes to dive that way successfully ... wherever you happen to be diving.

Getting a mentor or few private sessions from a GUE instructor then finding a DIR type buddy will be more beneficial for you since it can be worked out over a longer period of time.

for example. Take one day with an instructor. Get your gear figured out and have the breast stroke kick emphasized. Go PRACTICE-you will NEVER get better at buoyancy and trim and propulsion from listening to anyone, you have to go out and do it. After say 10-20 dives *preferably with a cave diver or DIR type*, go back to the instructor and show him your progress and have him evaluate you. He'll give you pointers that you can work on. After another 10-20 dives, do the same thing. After that take fundies or a cavern course with that instructor and get those skills up. Progress as far as desired

That's doing it bass ackwards, and can actually make the transition more difficult.

I dived regularly with DIR trained divers for two years before taking a Fundamentals class. I thought getting through the class would be a snap ... I had pretty good skills, and all that exposure and mentoring would surely make it an easy transition.

I was wrong. All that extra diving actually made it harder for me to pick up on some of the nuances of developing a stable platform that my mentors weren't really qualified to teach me. I had over 900 dives by the time I took Fundies, and I struggled with it, because some of the habits that were inhibiting my progress were so ingrained I had a hard time changing them. And it took way more than 10-20 dives working with one of the best mentors I've ever known (Uncle Pug) to change them. In fact, I went back a year later and took the class again with a different instructor, and still got a lot out of it the second time around. I suspect if I took it today, I'd learn that I've let myself get sloppy and still need remedial work on something.

Take the class sooner, rather than later ... let your instructor evaluate what your weaknesses are and show you how to strengthen them. That's what they're trained to do ... and that's the value you're paying for when you take the class.

Fundies isn't ... at all ... about passing. It's about improving. That's the first mental shift you need to make when you decide to sign up for a GUE class ... getting the card isn't the goal ... getting the chops is ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[rjack321]

I do have a question--what is the DIR take on combined inflator/regulator rigs for me to use after I hand off my primary? The book did not say and the shop said that some people had bought the Halcyon rig with the inflator/octo and some did not.

Its "ok" recreationally. But these devices make doing any kind of midwater stops more difficult than they need to be. Inflator being in your mouth, having to remove a reg to deflate, confusion amongst the buttons under stress, etc. There's no place for them in cave or OW deco diving due to these issues.

So, generally speaking, since DIR uses the same basic configuration from the easiest single tank dive up to the most complicated doubles and multistage dive... The combo inflator - octo devices are not used.

You'll find the "saving a hose" arguement is a bit distracting but there's really no benefit to avoiding the bungied backup under your chin.

 

[guyharrisonphoto]

Thanks John,

For sure I won't be buying anything based on just trying at the shop. I will rent them both. I was impressed with how absolutely snug halcyon-type rig was. I also hate unstable BCDs and will evaluate the transpac closely for that. Thanks for alerting me on what to look for.

Really, my thought on the transpac is that it might be better for my wife due to her particular lower back issue but she will decide that herself once she tries it. I also notice that the Dive Rite plate/harness/wing rig similar to the halcyon is about $300 less, which can go a long way towards a regulator. Still, I was very impressed with how well thought out all aspects of the halcyon system were, which I guess is no surprise considering the most advanced divers in the world created it! I have not actually seen the Dive Rite yet. Any thoughts (from anyone) about differences between the two?

Also, what does "DIR" think about the combined LP inflator/regulator second stage? I have never used one of those. Seems to me that you have to take your reg our of your mouth every time you need to dump air while ascending? Not sure I want to do that when I am in an emergency situation already. Or is there another way to dump?

Guy

 

[danvolker]

Hi, I'm back,

Thanks so much to everyone for the feedback. I did get a copy of "Doing It Right" and have read it through. Lucky for me there is a local shop in Ft. Lauderdale that is into DIR (Brownie's Southport Dive) and they actually "lent" me the book at no charge! Having read the book, I will be definitely planning the Fundies class as soon as I can, but I need to arrange it so I can do it on evenings and weekends as opposed to taking five full days off work. The DIR philosophy is right up my alley.

They had Halcyon gear which I tried on at the shop. I did love the complete freedom, That is the way to go! When I tried on jackets, or even back inflate BCs from regular manufacturers, they felt like straight-jackets by comparison!! The shop also had a long-hose setup, which the best thing I had ever seen for air sharing. For my open-ocean diving the 7' hose was a bit much but they had a 5' that seemed just right.

I do have a question--what is the DIR take on combined inflator/regulator rigs for me to use after I hand off my primary? The book did not say and the shop said that some people had bought the Halcyon rig with the inflator/octo and some did not.

I did notice that the halcyon rig weighed heavy in the middle of the back (might not be so good for my wife who has some lower back disc issues) and the shoulder straps dug in. I know that will probably disappear in the water but would probably be uncomforable on a boat in choppy water . . . I will also go look at a Transpac to see if it really gets the weight down around the hips. Again I am lucky in that Brownies rents the Halcyon rigs and another shop rents the dive rite rigs so I can actually dive them before I decide what to buy.

I do not need all the bells, whistles, D rings etc that are on the transpac, but the concept (similar to backpacking) of getting the weight on the hips is something I want to at least look at.

I've learned a lot from these posts, the book, and the web links from everyone. I just want to say thanks.

Guy

Guy,
One thing I would suggest is that you show up for the DIR Adventure/Fun dives planned Feb 18, 19, and 20 in Palm Beach. This follows a week of Fundamentals for I believe 9 people right now, where these nine will be diving with another 15 or more people who just want to see DIR first hand, from some well known GUE instructors { Errol Kalayci and Bob Sherwood} and DIR divers.
We will be doing some of the most spectacular Palm Beach county dives, from Jupiter to Delray Beach. You can see how we dive, how our bouyancy and trim effect our dive in advanced conditions, compared to how these conditions effect more traditional divers, and you can see some of the ways DIR skills effect even uw photography and lobster hunting.
You can get questions answered by GUE instructors, or me of course , and this includes the gear issues.

As to the transpack for your wife.....My wife Sandra is 5 foot 7 and a very fit cyclist and underwater photographer ( for www.sfdj.com ). She had a halcyon bp/wings in 2000 to 2005, then got talked in to a Transpack by a nearby shop, because the Halcyon backplate was really to wide for her. The Transpac was touted as a better fit for her.
She has used the transpac now for a few years, and is switching back to Halcyon now that they have a small backplate for women...the big complaint Sandra has with the Transpac, is that it traps air in it's wings, which effects bouyancy and trim--in order to really empty the transpac wing, you litterally have to do gyrations..it has high points in the wing that will not dump air when you are in the correct horizontal trim. The Halcyon dumps perfectly in this scenario, allowing perfection in bouyancy and trim. Now with the women's backplate, the Halcyon harness feels much better to Sandra as well. Prior to 2000, Sandra used a Scubapro stab jacket for about 15 years....she would NEVER purposely want a stab jacket again, meaning she would not rent one on a vacation, but would ALWAYS arrange to use a bp/wing.

Hope this helps, and just ask if you want more info on the DIR days.