How to Learn about DIR?

[ScubaVideo]

Is it the soft BP part of the Transpac that affects the wings air dump? I'm looking to change my Halcyon harness over to Transplate style probably Hollis Elite 2. I can't see that harness affecting the wing any more so than the current setup.

I can imagine without using one that the Transpac would allow the wing pull out of shape. Is what you think is happening?

 

[danvolker]

Is it the soft BP part of the Transpac that affects the wings air dump? I'm looking to change my Halcyon harness over to Transplate style probably Hollis Elite 2. I can't see that harness affecting the wing any more so than the current setup.

I can imagine without using one that the Transpac would allow the wing pull out of shape. Is what you think is happening?

No, it is the shape of the transpac wing....it has a huge vertical flap when your body is flat horizontal ( when you are swimming or hovering) --almost like doubles wings would have if used on a single...except this is the small wing the transpac comes with....for divers that swim head up and feet down, they may never realize the design flaw. Hopefully everyone here knows that you never are supposed to swim head up and feet down
The opv is so far below the top of the wing holding air that it is non-functional--it allows significant volume of air to be trapped...I believe her wing is the rec wing....they do have others, but I do not believe they have any wings that come close to the Halcyon for perfecting bouyancy and trim.

 

[TSandM]

I'm a small woman with some low back issues, and I have never felt that using a backplate system has caused me any problems with my back, even with double tanks. I did have problems with back pain when I used a system with integrated weights --I think they just pulled on the wrong place.

Dan's suggestion of joining the Palm Beach event is a great one.

 

[tbone1004]

Who says you can't use an Eclipse wing on the Transpac? I've done it... Have to use a STA, but who cares. It's not an issue with the transpac, it's with the specific wing. The Rec wing which is probably what she had is not th ebest for singles, although now they have the 360 wing it works a bit better. The Travel and Trek wings work just fine for dumping in any orientation for single tanks. The Classic wing works just fine with doubles as well. The old rec wings were the "all in one" wing that never really worked, although they work fine for lighter weight doubles.

 

[ucfdiver]

I dive a Transpac, I love it, I know DIR divers that switched to Transpacs and vice versa. It all depends on you. Nothing about a Transpac is DIR other than it's not a jacket. The D-rings are quite movable, I just readjusted mine last night actually, the padding is removable, and the extra straps can be cut.
I haven't done the last two because I don't see a need. Paratroopers go under a lot more stress with their harnesses than we do and they still use quick releases and harnesses quite similar to the Transpac.

Funny, the title was "How to Learn about DIR?". Why bring up something completely off topic?

I wouldn't buy any gear until you get through a course or dive with a mentor. You need to walk around in both a Transpac and a DIR harness with tanks and dive with them before you pick one or the other.

The issue here is failure rate. A few dives on each system won't give you enough data to make an informed decision. Fortunately, bp/w's are proven to not fail, other systems are not. Either way, this is something you need to ask people who have "been there done that" until you have a substantial amount of experience to make a personal decision based off of experience.

If you do fundies, let the instructor know you're more interested in getting the basic diving skills established rather than passing the course. This might change his direction with the course or may recommend just running through a couple private sessions with him/her first.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that an instructor teaching "fundamentals" knows that you're interested in learning basic skills.

for example. Take one day with an instructor. Get your gear figured out and have the breast stroke kick emphasized. Go PRACTICE-you will NEVER get better at buoyancy and trim and propulsion from listening to anyone, you have to go out and do it. After say 10-20 dives *preferably with a cave diver or DIR type*, go back to the instructor and show him your progress and have him evaluate you. He'll give you pointers that you can work on. After another 10-20 dives, do the same thing. After that take fundies or a cavern course with that instructor and get those skills up. Progress as far as desired

You know, I really feel that I have the experience to safely execute some reasonably advanced cave dives. However, I've never studied any teaching methodology (fundies instructors have, and do), and can't even come close to the level of what someone who teaches for a living can. There's a TON of piss poor cave divers out there, so unless you have a solid reason to believe the person mentoring you is qualified, please be careful you don't learn bad habits.

Who says you can't use an Eclipse wing on the Transpac? I've done it... Have to use a STA, but who cares. It's not an issue with the transpac, it's with the specific wing. The Rec wing which is probably what she had is not th ebest for singles, although now they have the 360 wing it works a bit better. The Travel and Trek wings work just fine for dumping in any orientation for single tanks. The Classic wing works just fine with doubles as well. The old rec wings were the "all in one" wing that never really worked, although they work fine for lighter weight doubles.

Having owned both, I can say the bp/w combo is MUCH more stable than a transpac and wing.

 

[ScubaVideo]

I'm a small woman with some low back issues, and I have never felt that using a backplate system has caused me any problems with my back, even with double tanks. I did have problems with back pain when I used a system with integrated weights --I think they just pulled on the wrong place.

Dan's suggestion of joining the Palm Beach event is a great one.

What do you use for a weight system? I'm thinking of giving the DUI Weight and Trim a try to move the weight strain to my shoulders, but then I was thinking it might not make a difference once in the water.

If you use a weight belt, how does that work with the waist harness of the BP/W? I was going to do integrated but with my DS and limited buoyancy of the wing I need to move the main weight onto me.

 

[guyharrisonphoto]

Hi Dan,

Can you give me the details of those dives in Feb? I would definitely be interested. I probably will not have bought gear by then but would probably rent a tech/DIR rig from Brownies or, if you have a shop that you particularly recommend, please let me know. I would need the BCD/Reg/Light plus a wetsuit. Have mask and fins but that's all. I would be alone and in need of a buddy.

If you all are arranging it, I would like the cost of the trips plus rental of a complete (except for mask and fins) DIR BC/Reg/Gauge/Timer/Light set-up, or if I need to rent that stuff myself can you refer me to a shop? Also, I will get my PADI nitrox cert beforehand so I can finally bring myself to the 21st century.

Guy

I actually wanted to take that course but cannot get five days off of work. Will need to have a evening/weekends course. Do you know of any that are upcoming in the Ft. Laud area?

I hope I get to meet you in person in Feb, and thanks for the feedback on your experience with the transpac. I know one problem my wife is having is getting her bouyancy right and in particular completely dumping her BCD, so that is an important consideration.

Also, do these wing rigs have the shoulder dump valve that you can operate by pulling the corrugated hose (that was always my preferred method because it was very easy to stay in position and not have to rotate my body to get the hose elevated enough to dump), or any other way to dump than using the hose?

Guy

 

[Cave Diver]

Still, I was very impressed with how well thought out all aspects of the halcyon system were, which I guess is no surprise considering the most advanced divers in the world created it! I have not actually seen the Dive Rite yet. Any thoughts (from anyone) about differences between the two?

Halcyon has some very nice gear, but so do many other companies now as well. Dive Rite, Deep Sea Supply and a few others. I've got a Halcyon plate and wing and a Dive Rite plate and wing. One I keep setup for singles with a smaller wing and single tank adapter, one for doubles with a bigger wing. I like both just fine.

My Dive Rite stuff I caught on a good sale at my local shop. The Halcyon stuff I bought off ebay at a great price. As long as you do your research on proper wing sizing, it would be hard to go wrong with a BPW setup from any of the major players. You might find a few differences in features and customer service, so a little research will go a long way. But in the end, any of them will work just fine.

 

[Sas]

mark messersmith told me a story once about his crotch strap coming undone in turner.
that's the only failure of a harness setup I've ever heard of.

My crotch strap came undone once too... I just removed my gear underwater and stuck it back on, no dramas.

I have had a quick release on my old BC break and that was a great deal more annoying so I prefer the harness

 

[danvolker]

Hi Dan,

Can you give me the details of those dives in Feb? I would definitely be interested. I probably will not have bought gear by then but would probably rent a tech/DIR rig from Brownies or, if you have a shop that you particularly recommend, please let me know. I would need the BCD/Reg/Light plus a wetsuit. Have mask and fins but that's all. I would be alone and in need of a buddy.

If you all are arranging it, I would like the cost of the trips plus rental of a complete (except for mask and fins) DIR BC/Reg/Gauge/Timer/Light set-up, or if I need to rent that stuff myself can you refer me to a shop? Also, I will get my PADI nitrox cert beforehand so I can finally bring myself to the 21st century.

Guy

I actually wanted to take that course but cannot get five days off of work. Will need to have a evening/weekends course. Do you know of any that are upcoming in the Ft. Laud area?

I hope I get to meet you in person in Feb, and thanks for the feedback on your experience with the transpac. I know one problem my wife is having is getting her bouyancy right and in particular completely dumping her BCD, so that is an important consideration.

Also, do these wing rigs have the shoulder dump valve that you can operate by pulling the corrugated hose (that was always my preferred method because it was very easy to stay in position and not have to rotate my body to get the hose elevated enough to dump), or any other way to dump than using the hose?

Guy

I will look forward to meeting you. The idea of the hoses that work by pull dump is out of favor due to the incidence of the hose pulling out of the wing and the bc no longer being able to be filled with air.

I actually had that happen to me once in the early 90's while wearing an old AtPac with a pull dump....
...I was heavy for a fast descent to 145 feet. Much heavier than in the top 60 feet of depth due to wet suit compression, at 145 I could work in the big current without being tossed around, and the drop speed got me where I wanted to end up....in a place spectacular for grabbing lobsters.....When the pull dump ripped out, I was more than 20 pounds negative.
Swimming up was very challenging ( a long effort, making slow headway, bordering on anaerobic threshold level effort) , and I was extremely happy that the boat was almost overhead when I surfaced. While not a common problem for me through the years, it was one failure I can easily avoid. I don't weight that heavy no matter what, either....If I wanted to go down at 400 feet per minute now, I would hold on to an anchor for the drop, and let the boat pull it up later