I am a little nervous

[TSandM]

To the OP: You have had a very good insight. One of the challenges of diving with a variety of buddies is the lack of standardization of equipment and equipment configuration. It is very important to go over equipment before a dive, so that each diver knows how the other will share gas, dump weights, and CONTROL BUOYANCY. The last concept is often omitted. I learned it the hard way, trying to mentor someone and in the last effort to help him get neutral (in ten feet of water), grabbing his inflator and discovering that, instead of buttons, it had colored PLATES to control it. It was the weirdest thing I have ever seen, and I had no idea how it worked.

When we bought our original gear, my husband and I decided it was a good idea to get essentially the same equipment and configure it the same way, for this reason. (Long before I ever heard of DIR diving.) Since then, I have moved to diving with a whole GROUP of people who have made that decision, because I think it enhances safety. But if that is not possible for you, you just have to try to brief your buddies on your gear and how it works, and hope they can remember it in an emergency. As you found out in your class, what you are really doing is betting you never have one.

I don't like the Air2, which is what I started out with. I found it to breathe poorly and be very awkward to use, but I will admit that part of it was that I had a standard length hose on my primary regulator. Sharing gas on a 24" hose is uncomfortable. I recommend that anyone who is using an Air2 have a longer primary hose. There is a reason octopus hoses are generally 36" or 40".

 

[SparticleBrane]

Air2's club baby seals to death.

 

[scubadobadoo]

The panicking OOA diver is sucking off of a S600... if that can't deliver enough air to him then... well... he's in real trouble.

What am I missing here?

You are missing the fact that the OOA diver will likely be panicking and that could mean he is trying to kill you... LITERALLY...and IT IS YOU WHO IS IN TROUBLE.

So you could start to panic as well, and likely will to some extent (nothing personal) with your 0-24 dives at 90 feet in god knows what conditions to add to the bad news. Ever dive with a crazed, over-sized, rabid octopus who has a machine gun and an atom bomb going off? That's what diving with a panicked diver is like. DM's with 1000's of dives die every year trying to save panicked divers.

Having a $99 toy in your mouth won't help matters as you suck air in and out at an insane rate. (I won't even get into the long hose argument now but I will add that I personally would rather that crazy Octopus Diver be a few feet away and not a foot away from my mask and reg).

So why give that panicked diver your best reg in the first place? Don't. Give him another s600. That's the best scenario IMHO. Carry safety gear that was built to be used daily and not gear that was built to maybe be used (if ever) so they made it inferior and convenient. IMHO that's a half ass attempt at safety and that goes for air 2's and cheap octos.

I have panicked personally and bolted to the surface when I was a new diver over 300 dives ago and before a lot more training. It changed me forever. Some of the best trained divers (who make me look like a newbie) in the world have also panicked and died. I have also dealt with panicked divers personally. Experiencing it first hand sheds new light on what panic really does to a person. And panic is contagious! Once full blown panic starts it is unfortunately RARELY reversed.

I hope I don't sound preachy...not my intention. Just trying to offer a small view of the narrowing of perception that takes place in an OOA situation. I argue it is best to offer the panicked AND the assisting diver the best working safety gear possible in an effort to instill control and confidence when all hell breaks lose.

 

[Ed Palma]

I'm another recent convert. I loved my Airsource II and would practice with it constantly. Few months back, I switched to a 7 foot hose and tried practicing with it. One thing you have to do is to remember to hold the airsource away from yourself when deploying the long hose, as it might get entangled in the long hose. As much as I loved that airsource, there was a part of me that felt relieved when I switched over to a bungeed back-up. Oh, and after having switched, I finally went with a shorter corrugated hose and LPI hose. I guess based on that switch, the purported advantages of having one less hose with an airsource is counterbalanced by the need for a longer corrugated hose.
A bungeed back-up is neater.

 

[Randy43068]

I'm familiar with the operation of the AIR II and can only say that if you do not go over it with your buddy in detail it could cause problems. But don't worry too much about him because you're the one who's GONNA DIE IF HE SCREWS IT UP! So relax and rest assured that you are not putting any undo stress on him that a few therapy sessions after your funeral wont cure. Enjoy your next dive. With your insta buddy who was trained on a standard octo that every manufacturer makes. Why should a shop, or instructor for that matter, train on those things if they never use them or sell them? When you choose your gear it is your responsibility to dive with people who understand it. If they do not you are responsible for informing them. There are too many gimmicks and doodads out there to be covered in detail in an OW course. I talk about it in the classroom but unless someone is buying one they do not show up on our pool gear or rentals. They are a personal preference and basically just do not work well in OW training sessions. If you are that concerned dump it and get a standard octo or bungee and long hose set up.

None of this **** should even be an issue. How damn much training does one need to grab normal regulator in time of need? NONE! The Air2 proponents say all sorts of nonsense about training, your buddy will die.. etc. It's horse**** and there is absolutely no need for the damn thing, and no practical use for this ****.

Basically Jim, I'm agreeing with you.

 

[MasterFritts]

Why is it that some people seem to take this personally. It is a discussion. All the cussing in the world does not make you look smart, just the opposite in fact.

Bottom line is everyone is different. I like my AIR2 and will not change my mind on it. Some of you like the Octo set up. I say what works for you and what you are comfortable with is exactly what you need. I have messed with both ways and just like the AIR2 better.

 

[Randy43068]

Why is it that some people seem to take this personally. It is a discussion. All the cussing in the world does not make you look smart, just the opposite in fact.

Bottom line is everyone is different. I like my AIR2 and will not change my mind on it. Some of you like the Octo set up. I say what works for you and what you are comfortable with is exactly what you need. I have messed with both ways and just like the AIR2 better.

Yeah I'm really tired and a bit grumpy this morning. Don't take my swearing personally, ok?

I'd say your one of those who say "don't bother me with the facts, my mind is made up."

 

[ScubaSteve]

I agree Master....these threads tend to get heated after a couple of pages. It is not this topic though....it is people.

Now, I have expressed my distaste for the Air2 and I, like you, am unlikely to change. I do not recall ever seeing a post where anybody has ever raved about the performance of the Air2 in a real life panicked OOA emergency. If I am incorrect, I will admit it but I just do not recall one instance of it. If you are ever in an OOA situation where you are sharing your air, I hope the system perform as good as people believe it will and that everybody ends up safe.

Safe diving to all, and to all a good "night".

Why is it that some people seem to take this personally. It is a discussion. All the cussing in the world does not make you look smart, just the opposite in fact.

Bottom line is everyone is different. I like my AIR2 and will not change my mind on it. Some of you like the Octo set up. I say what works for you and what you are comfortable with is exactly what you need. I have messed with both ways and just like the AIR2 better.

 

[rstofer]

Why should a shop, or instructor for that matter, train on those things if they never use them or sell them?

At my LDS, almost every BC on the rack has an AIR II of some variety. KnightHawk, LadyHawk, BlackDiamond - all of the BCs that are included in 'packages'.

It isn't even a choice, they come included in the package. I suppose you could find the BC without the AIR II but all of the display models have them. Included in the price...

Richard

 

[Sas]

Bottom line is everyone is different. I like my AIR2 and will not change my mind on it. Some of you like the Octo set up. I say what works for you and what you are comfortable with is exactly what you need. I have messed with both ways and just like the AIR2 better.

You've done 0-24 dives. It is not a good idea to fall into the habit of making up your mind on a piece of equipment when you are so very inexperienced. You say you've tried both ways, there aren't two ways to configure your regulators for one thing... I have never used an AIRII so not going to comment on what it is like other than to say no one I know has continued using it once they have gained experience... One thing I do I know is that I do not have the experience to know the ideal equipment for me yet so am not going to close my mind to different options without even trying them.

Also I asked some questions before regarding some bold statements you made earlier on? I.e. how many real OOA scenarios have you had to deal with in your 0-24 dives? And I am curious to hear your source about why a panicked diver is more likely to grab your primary over your occy? Seeing as you are one of the few big fans of the AIRII wouldn't mind hearing some of your practical experiences with its use other than training dives that make you so certain it is the best gear configuration for you.