I am a little nervous

[Sas]

Hey Randy,

Thanks for the insight. Can you be specific about why an AIR2 would not work well. In my understanding it would be used for emergencies only right? I am just unclear why an OCTO is better in this regards. I mean you use it to get to the surface only. Now if I was sharing air for other purposes I would not think it the best solution at all. But the only time I intend to share air is in an out of air situation.

When sharing in this way I use my right shoulder dump to control my Buoyancy as I ascend keeping the AIR2 in my mouth. Can you please elaborate on my points so I can better understand why?

Sorry I hit my serious mode now. Dang it.

Not really going to comment on the AIRII as I don't know enough about it. But one thing with gas sharing your might want to consider Master Fritts is that you'll want a panicked OOA diver as far away as possible. I have my primary (which I donate in an OOA situation) on a 5ft hose, a panicked diver 5ft away from me is a lot better than the standard length of a occy or primary hose (my other second stage is bungeed around my neck but I still gotta change the hose to a shorter one, 22" or 24"). I think regardless of what you use as your gas source when you are sharing air (AIRII or bungeed occy) having a longer hose to donate to your buddy makes a lot more sense as you can shove them away if they are causing problems for you). Not sure if people use AIRII setups with longer hoses?

As well, how many of you, this means you, not someone you know or some idea you have in your head, have ever experienced an OOA situation, and I am not talking about training situations? I believe there will be very few responses to this.

I have experienced one OOA situation and one low on air situation where I had to share gas with buddies. What it taught me is that even when the diver I needed to share air with was calm, it is very awkward to manouver with the standard occy hose size.

 

[rstofer]

Do most people keep air in their BC when they ascend? I always completely dump the air before ascent every time I dive, as do my buddies. Is the assumption that in the emergency situation your buddy might not want to kick?

I am just trying to understand the desire for buoyancy control during the OOA ascent that is repeated over and over in this post.

I can imagine a number of scenarios where the buddy couldn't kick. In fact, you would also need to dump his BC or you will both go rocketing up. But...

At the beginning of a dive, with a full HP 100, you might be 17# negative on the bottom. Perhaps your buddy is also 17# negative. Maybe more if either of you are overweighted or different assumptions are made about the wetsuit buoyancy and the required ballast. It could even reach 50# total with a little change in gear. We're not even discussing doubles...

I am getting on in years and I very seriously doubt I could swim 34# or more off the bottom. But that's just me. I'm sure the younger folks won't have a problem with, perhaps, 50#.

I guess you could take the time to completely vent the victim's BC and then just inflate your own until you begin to ascend. Oh, wait! You have a 30# wing! Well, that won't get you both off the bottom. And if it did, it would be fully inflated. Yes, you could swim with some of the weight. It will go away fairly quick as the wetsuit expands.

This is an interesting thread. There are a lot of things to consider and the AIR II is only part of the concern. This whole idea of controlling the ascent of a helpless victim gets completely out of hand.

It makes me glad I took Rescue in warm water. It's much easier to pass the course in an area that doesn't require a wetsuit and Al 80's are the tank of choice.

Richard

 

[TSandM]

I didn't like the Air2 for a number of reasons. I didn't find it comfortable to use. I did not think it breathed very well at all. I found controlling my buoyancy with it while breathing off it to be cumbersome. (Now, admittedly, I was a pretty new diver at the time. I'm quite sure I could deal with it better now.) And I loathe the length of the thing, which is requisite for its use.

My bungied backup is right under my chin, and sometimes I can even pick it up without touching it with my hands. It's come in quite handy in a couple of occasions when I have fallen in shallow water. It's the same regulator I use for my primary, and it breathes very well. I'm perfectly happy using either. And now I have a nice, short corrugated hose on my inflator, so it doesn't hang down below me when I'm diving, and that pleases me.

There is nothing horribly wrong with an octo-inflator combination. You need to practice with it. You need to be satisfied with how it breathes. You need to be able to execute a controlled ascent with it, with stops if they are required. And I feel you really ought to put a longer hose on your primary than the 24" which is standard.

To be honest, I prefer the Air2 to a standard octo, because at least with the Air2, you are donating the primary, and it is likely that your backup has not been dragged through the sand.

 

[NudeDiver]

Here's a thought.....LOTS AND LOTS of Air2 users have ditched the Air2 and gone with an octo. My question is, how many octo users have decided to ditch their octo and go with an Air2?

 

[ahava]

Here's a thought.....LOTS AND LOTS of Air2 users have ditched the Air2 and gone with an octo. My question is, how many octo users have decided to ditch their octo and go with an Air2?

Probably the same # that have been sold. LOTS AND LOTS

 

[NudeDiver]

Probably the same # that have been sold. LOTS AND LOTS

That's not necessarily true. A lot of those were sold to new divers who never used anything else (I was one), or experienced divers who bought all new gear for some reason and ended up with the Air2 for one reason or another (such as being included in a package). That's a bit different from the question I asked - that is - the percentage of Air2 users who specifically decided, "I've been using this octo right here, and now I am going to ditch it and go get myself an Air2".

 

[ocean walker]

Here's a thought.....LOTS AND LOTS of Air2 users have ditched the Air2 and gone with an octo. My question is, how many octo users have decided to ditch their octo and go with an Air2?

I had an Air2 that I still have hanging in my closet because I want to make sure nobody ever uses it. I went to an Octo with and without a 7' hose. Then I ditched the Octo for an Atomic SS1 which is the same concept as an Air2 but a completely different piece of gear. I like it as much as I disliked the Air2 and I cannot begin to say how much I disliked the Air2.

This makes me wonder if we are talking about a piece of gear or a concept. I also would like to hear more on training and mind set in the water. I am a gear freak like many of you and I have learned my limits the hard way. But I know from trying for "stupid diver of the year" more than once I am here because of training and not because of gear. Gear failure was never the problem. Poor decision making was my problem. May still be - I'm on this list :doh2:

 

[Sas]

This makes me wonder if we are talking about a piece of gear or a concept. I also would like to hear more on training and mind set in the water. I am a gear freak like many of you and I have learned my limits the hard way. But I know from trying for "stupid diver of the year" more than once I am here because of training and not because of gear. Gear failure was never the problem. Poor decision making was my problem. May still be - I'm on this list :doh2:

That is a good point. Most problems I have encountered have been because of mistakes me or a buddy has made, not gear problems. There have been a few exceptions (one BC failed for no apparent reason on a buddy for example - still don't know why after having it checked!) but not many. I think though, that once a problem occurs, gear can hamper problem solving. Not saying that is what AIRII does (back on topic for a bit ) but it can apply to poorly configured gear in general. For example, when I had to share gas with my old set up, my training enabled me to carry this out successfully, just my gear hampered my efforts somewhat. I guess I like my gear to be as idiot proof as possible and with the least amount of failure points but yea got a way to go with that...

 

[ocean walker]

Saspotato said
"I guess I like my gear to be as idiot proof as possible and with the least amount of failure points"
This would be my very reason for the SS1, one less hose and one less piece of gear or failure point. I had a high pressure hose fail once. I thought someone had shot me when it popped.
:cool2:

 

[NudeDiver]

Well, for concept, I was using the following definitions:

Air 2: any LPI-based regulator

Octo: any second regulator that is not an Air2 as defined above (i.e. it could be a second "primary" reg that you are using as a safe second.