I was forced to go to LeisurePro!

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Blacknet said:

Excellent choice for a reg! You can get the mr-22 orbiter from lp.

I tried to get an Orbiter from LP....sold out! Opted for the dayglo yellow Abyss since the guts are the same. Called my buddy this morning to tell him I scored the MR22 and he said he must have been online the same time as I was last night and wanted one too but was waiting to talk to me first to do a joint order. Hung up with him quickly and called LP and upped my order to 2!

Silly man....plans to have the shop order the black faceplate to replace the yellow....doesn't want yellow on his cave rig.....hahahaha. :mean:
 
Hello,

a little bit of mud goes a looong way :) did you check with other places like diveinn?

Ed
 
I was just in discussion with our Zeagle Rep....basically, they know whats going on and "say" they are trying to stop the undercutting of LDS by internet sales....but really can't stop it. Its quite obvious that in this economy, they don't care where the sales come from. Ultimately, they are making their margins regardless of whether the LDSs do or not....in the not too distant future.....

Dive shops will become air fill stations and diver education centers. Travel will finally be completely internet sales and equipment will be as well. LDS won't be able to stock gear that can be tried on and/or bought immediately by impulse buyers -- if priced competitively, the margins won't support the floor and inventory space required. Undoubtedly, many LDS will close and thus supply for education and air fills will shrink.

In order to cover the costs of classroom, insurance, maintenance etc... prices on education will increase and air fills may approach the cost of green's fees. Hopefully, the increases in the cost of education and air will be more than offset by the decrease in equipment costs -- net savings to the diver!!!

LDS's profitability will be limited by the amount of time available to teach in a day and the number of classrooms they can keep filled and how busy they can keep their compressor(s).

Potentially, instructors will go [more] independent and even eliminate the need for a dive education center -- it is not too challenging to find a spot for the academic portion and pools, schools, and health club pools are often available when their swim lessons aren't occuring-- without equipment, the LDS offers little additional value for having the classroom on-site. So another possibility is that the LDS is simply an air fill station....which like in Bonaire, could be potentially an unattended station...put in your c-card and credit card, and get a fill. In this scenario, the instructor makes better money that he/she is likely getting paid by the LDS ( O/W classes pay $50-$100 / student)

SCUBABOARD and similar other internet based exchanges will largely replace trade rags and shop recommendations for equipment...the early adopters will try the new stuff and the majority of us will listen/read with baited breath on how it performs.

The manufacturers and certification agencies win -- they continue their control of the industry.

Divers win with minor inconveniences of having to wait for gear and/or returning gear that might not be exactly what they want.

Instructors win, because they get better margins...albeit at the expense of new divers having to pay slightly more.

LDS go the way of the dodo.

Oh, btw, when the LDS go away, then the manufacturers no longer have to worry about pissing of their sales channel. So, THEY will being doing a direct model (remember DELL?) and then LeisurePro, DiveInn, etc... will go the way of the dodo--- a short-lived life in the dive industry.

What will the manufacturers do once they directly deal with the consumer -- well....in the PC industry, there was consolidation primarily because what Dell did....Compaq/DEC/HP..whatever happened to AST, ALR, Packard Bell, et. al? And unfortunately for us, the SCUBA industry isn't that big. If there is consolidation, then there will be less competition which means increased pricing power. Maybe the prices go up?

The good news for us is that we already have our gear and won't likely need a lot more in the future. Also, the SCUBA industry aren't exactly fast movers...so there will be some time for all of this to occur...probably won't affect me too much...I am an old fart....but my kids...yeah probably.

Will all the above happen....who knows, I think there is as good a chance of it happening as it not.

Otter
 
Hello,

while we're on that subject... I bought a 20# co2 tank today for $25 and a $13.47 fill. Not much smaller than an al80 and made by the same company. A T cylinder is $120, last time I checked that was cheaper than an al80. Scuba prices are WAY inflated. I would like to see scuba equipment cost go way down in the future and with these online stores they are making a start.

Ed
 
Otter once bubbled...
I was just in discussion with our Zeagle Rep....basically, they know whats going on and "say" they are trying to stop the undercutting of LDS by internet sales....but really can't stop it.

I find it hard to believe that they trying to stop the undercutting. If they were serious about it they would simply let LDS sell at any price they wanted while still offering their warrantee. By doing that the LDS could (if they choose to) sell at prices competitive to those online and offer personal service. By sticking to these stupid price fixing schemes the manufactures are killing the shops not the consumers.

Cornfed
 
cornfed once bubbled...


I find it hard to believe that they trying to stop the undercutting. If they were serious about it they would simply let LDS sell at any price they wanted while still offering their warrantee.

As I said above, I agree. If I thought the manufacturers were smart, I would say they are even in favor of it. Short-term, they sell more product at the same margins. Longer-term, they will completely disintermediate (replace) the sales channel and go direct to consumers. They can't do it directly and risk upseting the LDS -- so they let LP, et. al. do it for them. Then they go in and take out LP by offering direct to consumers at the prices above what they charge LDS but below what LP can offer AND they have mfg's warranty.

By doing that the LDS could (if they choose to) sell at prices competitive to those online and offer personal service. By sticking to these stupid price fixing schemes the manufactures are killing the shops not the consumers.

Cornfed

At least with Zeagle, LDSs can sell at any price, they just can't advertise at any price discounted by more that 15% of MSRP. Obviously that hamstrings the LDSs ability to use the internet to sell AND most LDS don't serve a large enough market to offer competitive prices.

LP, et. al, don't have pools, retail shop space, classroom, liablity insurance, multiple sales staff (qualified or otherwise). Therefore their margins can be much thinner. This completely ignores the economic advantage achieved by way that much of LP's inventory is acquired -- at fireside sales as LDS go out of business OR 'underground' from LDS trying to get greater volume discounts.

Its easy to say "..just sell at prices competitive to online and offer personal service." With the economic advantages LP, et. al. have, it just isn't possible. New divers MIGHT value the personal service enough to warrant slightly higher prices, but those prices won't be enough to sustain the entire overhead of an LDS.

I continue with my hypothesis that over the next decade equipment sales and repair will come direct from the Manufacturer/assembler (e.g. DELL). Education will be a combination of internet-based and independent instructors. Travel will be internet-based. Air fills will be handled by automated fill station at your local sporting goods retailer who wants foot traffic for their mass-market goods.

The other possiblity is that some mass-market retailer (Wal-Mart, Sport Chalet, Sport xxx) will survive and grow bringing enough scale and variety to cover their overhead and allow lower prices. Of course, why they would dedicate expensive retail floorspace to low margin products, when they can sell high margin goods escapes me....but maybe someone in mgmt likes to dive.

Otter
 
blacknet once bubbled...

Scuba prices are WAY inflated. I would like to see scuba equipment cost go way down in the future and with these online stores they are making a start.

Ed

There will be a period of time where they will go lower.....buy then and stock up! Thats what I am going to do.

Otter
 
Big-t-2538 once bubbled...

come on dude...rule 6 here.
OK, I give up. What's rule 6?
 

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