I wish my instructor would have...

[dytis-sm]

I once felt the same way...why didn't my OW instructors guided me this way or did not warn me about this? A lot can be said at what should or could be covered in OW class. But OW certification is meant to be a stepping stone on more diving training not a diving science class. It is so darn short... A lot of the students after all may never dive for more that a few times after that in their entire life time. As stated by a fellow poster, very few (the 10% is an interesting stat) pursue Advanced OW which basically should be necessary for everyone to complete their basic knowledge. So there is hardly an interest from most students to hear about long hoses, backplates, mixed gasses, deco, etc...

Looking backwards, I believe OW is a building block to work on based on diving interests. I do not think what I l learnt was useless or the process inefficient. Not everyone (actually very few) may be interested in following with further diving education and if they are from the beginning and have done their research then why not get certified by an agency like TDI, GUE, UTD, or others that can start you from OW all the way to Trimix and CCR? I think OW for a lot of us on this board was the "teaser" to explore more. Ironically my AOW was a tech diver and taught me a lot of things because I expressed an interest in his rig and diving style. It was not because of PADI or anyone else... It was simply desire to learn more after OW...

 

[mathauck0814]

mathauck0814 -- I still don't understand why transitioning to a long hose/bungee backup and other skills (like what else??) was such a problem for you that you would call it humbling and embarrassing? I mean, how many OW divers are taught on long hose? I bet less than 1% or so.

It's a problem of emphasis as well. As I mentioned, my initial beginnings were not uncommon. Local dive shop, herd of newbs in a pool, etc, reasonably low cost, etc. Transitioning into tech meant completely replacing all equipment and having to learn things like buoyancy control (which were not really emphasized in my diving). Despite having done quite a bit of diving between those two phases in my diving career, I was a nightmare in the water. This seems like something that my initial instructors should have focused on and emphasized (I did not know what I did not know, because frankly my instructor seemingly did not know either).

When I started into deeper diving the level of investment (time, mental, monetary) was all increased by an order of magnitude. It was frustrating to be spending time quite literally relearning basic skills at that elevated level of investment - it simply should have been there.

Embarrassment and humiliation in that I felt completely inadequately prepared to take up the training in the first place. I had a decent tech instructor who was reasonably patient and I didn't struggle with the skills, per se; but it's impossible to ignore that he clearly was doing remedial training with me at first.

 

[geoff w]

... To take your example of AAS protocols, I don't really see it as something that is incredibly problematic. I do agree that the long-hose/donate-primary protocol is better on the whole but to me "efficiency" means that the student is taught to be flexible and to handle an OOA situation by (a) avoiding it to begin with and (b) regardless of protocol to do what you and your buddy have agreed to ahead of time.

All of this applies equally to various gear configurations, so I see AAS as a "configuration" element and not a question of making a judgement as to what is "right" and what is "wrong". My OW students are exposed to both ideas and drilled in the one that conforms to the gear they're wearing, whatever that might be.

Ultimately it's about doing the right thing at the right time in the right way; avoiding problems where possible and and keeping in control when things get pear-shaped. And that applies equally to both recreational and to technical diving.

Gear is gear. Gear does not equate to skills, in my mind.

One of the main things my OW instructor taught us was not to run out of air in the first place. It seems pretty obvious, but I've been on plenty of dives where people have to surface because they're just about out of air.

I learned on an Air-2, and thinking about it, I'm not sure I've ever dived with an octo. My OW instructor still 20 years later from when he certified me still dives with an Air-2 (well, actually, the Atomic flavor), and so do I. His reasoning was always extra hoses, and longer one, pose more of an entanglement danger in kelp for new divers. If I look at the GUE equipment configuration, they use the same argument about snorkels ("during a dive they are typically in the way and pose an entanglement threat"). GUE says dive computers are bad and lists of baker's dozen reasons from the 1970s why they should be avoided, but PADI doesn't even teach tables any more, because recreational divers, particularly OW students, couldn't competently plan a dive and realistically OW divers are fine with computers.

My point is that OW instruction and tech diving are often at odds, especially in terms of gear, yet somehow people learn to dive and have some buoyancy skills after an OW certification course. Most tech training I've seen requires a certain level of mastery to pass, whereas OW provides a really abbreviated set of the basics that provide enough competence for a new diver to go out and get experience and proficiency with relatively little risk. PADI started taking baby steps this year with their new OW standards requiring a minimal level of skill performance while neutrally buoyant instead of training divers to do everything while kneeling. If a student is able to competently do skills in a jacket BC, they will have a much better sense of buoyancy if they ever switch to a backplate/wing configuration. Conversely, if you assume the majority of OW students end up as tropical vacation divers in rental gear, and they were only trained in tech gear configurations, they are going to be unhappy and have more problems with their diving.

Nowhere on this list do I see "underwater tank valve manipulation." It seems that every year we have one or two cases where a diver jumps in with the air off or nearly off and subsequently drowns. We could *totally* eliminate this particular type diving accident if we just required students to be able reach back & turn on their air. I don't think most of today's divers have ever been required to do it, and I doubt many even can.

Isn't this solving the wrong problem for OW students? Tech divers tend to be more physically fit, including limber, and are able to reach back and turn on their air. I seriously doubt 50% of the OW student population can physically perform that task, and even fewer in a two weekend OW certification class. I was trained to always check my air supply before getting in the water, and the proper procedure, which I always do, even if I don't do the whole pre-dive safety check with my buddy (BWRAF)

When I started into deeper diving the level of investment (time, mental, monetary) was all increased by an order of magnitude...

Only one order of magnitude??

 

[DivemasterDennis]

On the more realistic side, I "wish" that when I took my AOW class there was less sitting around time. I did it with my LDS at a local reservoir on an "open water weekend" and one instructor had our 4 member AOW group AND and open water group of five. So we had substantial down time between dives. He was thorough, but I did not like the sit around time. Ever since I have been part of the staff at my LDS that is one thing I have worked to eliminate, through having more staff, more Instructors and DM's and over time we have organized things much better than they were nearly 20 years ago. Not perfect, but much better.
DivemasterDennis

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Man, I've got to tell you that the journey that I've had for the last 33 years in the sport has been quite a ride. I've had some of the best instructors in the world and I've had some of the best training from unknowns. Each has given me skills, tools, knowledge, and added to my diving.

Over time, I became a more knowledgeable and skilled diver thanks to instructors, other divers, students and my own ideas and experience. I'm not done learning and growing, taking courses, adopting new kit, and such.

But, had I jumped right to whatever level of training might be considered climactic, I would have missed all of the joys of the foreplay of discovery along the way, as well as the environments, animals, and friendships

I don't think I would have changed a thing.

 

[OtherHalf]

Man, I've got to tell you that the journey that I've had for the last 33 years in the sport has been quite a ride. I've had some of the best instructors in the world and I've had some of the best training from unknowns. Each has given me skills, tools, knowledge, and added to my diving.

Over time, I became a more knowledgeable and skilled diver thanks to instructors, other divers, students and my own ideas and experience. I'm not done learning and growing, taking courses, adopting new kit, and such.

But, had I jumped right to whatever level of training might be considered climactic, I would have missed all of the joys of the foreplay of discovery along the way, as well as the environments, animals, and friendships

I don't think I would have changed a thing.

Trace, I loved learning from you, and I learned a TON from you. So when I disagree, it's with the utmost of respect.

I'm grateful my very first instructor asked me where I thought diving would take me. When I talked about caves and wrecks he told me to focus on the endstate.

It's the same thing I do in the Army every day (and the same thing they told you to do back in your rot-see days...). I knew that if that's what interested me that's where I needed to focus my training. My instructor told me that. And I wish every instructor told every new diver the same thing. I wish every instructor asked their students where they wanted diving to take them, then recommended courses and instructors from there.

The journey is enjoyable, but I've encountered too many divers who weren't asked what they wanted to do, and more importantly weren't told where diving could take them. And for them the journey ended because they simply didn't know that there was more out there for him.

It's not so much that I wish my instructor(s) would have asked me where I wanted diving to take me (they did, you included), but it's that I wish more OW instructors would ask their students the same thing, and help steer them in the right direction from the beginning, in terms of both gear selection and training.

 

[Oldbear]

When I look back on my various training the glaring point of change that I wish I could have a "do-over" is I wish I was a better student and I wish I started 20 years earlier. When I learned to dive I was working a high stress job, between 94-108 hours a week with a couple of weeks off about every four months. So I hired a private instructor and did a fast paced classroom and confined water session and then about six month later did my open water dives. Unfortunately my job really did not allow time to digest the material very well between sessions. So my biggest regret was MY approach to the training, not my instructor's abilities.

I am a strong believer that the student plays a very important part in their training. From MY past experiences the overwhelming majority of OW students have no desire to go on to to technical diving, let alone even know what it is or for. Their goal is to complete their OW for an upcoming vacation. So I focus on their desires and let them know what else is out there that fits into their perception of what diving is to them. When I was learning how drive a car at 15-16, I was not thinking about driving a commercial truck or a race car, while I am sure there were those who did. I was thinking about the great freedom I was going to get once I got my license. I really did not care if my driver's ed teacher had a CDL, but I am sure there are those who did.

So I am in favor of an instructor being a good skills trainer for the level of training they are conducting. But I too enjoy instructors that have experiences that I want to explore too and I seek them out myself. And what I have found good instructors teach a good class, but it is the side conversations that are the most interesting to me.

Along the way of my diving education there were instructors I did not care for and those who I still regard with high esteem. And they all have left their mark on me and have influenced my approach to teaching. Tomorrow I leave Colorado for a new job in the South Pacific where the local dive club makes 600-800 dives per month (Oh How I Am Glad I Will Be Only Working 40 Hour Per Week So I Can Dive As Often As Possible ). So when I teach there I will adjust my teaching to meet the needs and wishes of the local cliental. I have a sneaky feeling I will not be using my dry suit as much as there as I did here in Colorado...but my past training is still apart of who I am.

 

[scagrotto]

I don't understand what would cause buoyancy and trim issues going from OC tech gear to rebreather though. Can someone enlighten me?

I'm not a rebreather diver, but since nobody else got to it yet here's my understanding. Hopefully somebody will correct me if I get any important details wrong. Rebreathers have a "counter lung", that gets smaller as you inhale and larger as you exhale. Since all the gas that isn't exhaled into the water is saved to be rebreathed it goes into a flexible bag that's at about the same pressure as your lungs (you obviously can't blow it back into a rigid cylinder). That means that instead of your buoyancy changing as you inhale or exhale, the buoyancy shuttles between your lungs and the counter lung but remains the same because the volume of gas that's displacing water doesn't change.

If you've got a few hundred dives on open circuit you should be very used to doing your fine buoyancy control by breathing, and if you want to move up or down a couple of feet inhaling or exhaling is probably an instinctive response. Since that doesn't work with a rebreather you have to unlearn that behavior. If you want to move up a couple of feet with a rebreather you have to swim up, and if you've got any air in a BC or drysuit you can't offset the expansion by having a little less air in your lungs. The air in the counter lung would also expand (unless it vents; the details on that are beyond my knowledge), further increasing your buoyancy. That means that minor adjustments you would have made through breathing require adjusting the air in your BC.

 

[undrwater]

I don't believe I've ever had to actively "unlearn" something in order to learn a new skill or develop a new habit. It's just new learning.

Along with others, I'd have wanted more time spent on trim and propulsion.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Trace, I loved learning from you, and I learned a TON from you. So when I disagree, it's with the utmost of respect.

I'm grateful my very first instructor asked me where I thought diving would take me. When I talked about caves and wrecks he told me to focus on the endstate.

It's the same thing I do in the Army every day (and the same thing they told you to do back in your rot-see days...). I knew that if that's what interested me that's where I needed to focus my training. My instructor told me that. And I wish every instructor told every new diver the same thing. I wish every instructor asked their students where they wanted diving to take them, then recommended courses and instructors from there.

The journey is enjoyable, but I've encountered too many divers who weren't asked what they wanted to do, and more importantly weren't told where diving could take them. And for them the journey ended because they simply didn't know that there was more out there for him.

It's not so much that I wish my instructor(s) would have asked me where I wanted diving to take me (they did, you included), but it's that I wish more OW instructors would ask their students the same thing, and help steer them in the right direction from the beginning, in terms of both gear selection and training.

David,

I didn't mean I wouldn't change a thing about the industry. I meant I wouldn't change a thing about my personal journey.

I started off with an old-fashioned military style open water class in which the skills were nearly identical to US Navy diver training at PDIC HQ. That gave me a great foundation for comfort in the water and the ability to use no BC, horse-collars, jackets, back-inflate and use dive tables and do decompression diving Navy style.

I started tech training with the DIR approach through GUE which taught excellent trim, buoyancy & propulsion and a great philosophy 101 of tech diving, then I filled in the gaps with traditional tech training from other agencies. I went the opposite direction with cave, starting with traditional cave diving and then learning the DIR approach.

I did an SCR course and did a couple demo dives on the rEvo CCR, but so far I have little interest in rebreathers. I have two sidemount rigs, but so far I haven't been converted. At this point in my life, I'm leaning more towards why I dive rather than how I dive. I suppose I'll eventually find a reason to get turned onto both (cost of helium could switch me to a 'breather, or if I returned to the Bahamas to cave dive regularly it might be in sidemount), but rather than chase the next dangling carrot the industry wants to throw out to expand one's range or diving prowess, I want to refocus on nature and history. The next sets of training I'm hoping to complete are to get me more involved in animal and aquatic life, archaeology and geology.

Finally, as an instructor rather than turn my students into swimming advertising billboards of perfection, I want to create a healthier balance of "good enough", but solid instruction so divers don't forget why they started diving rather than spending too much time worrying about how good they look in the water.

I mean, if that's the student's goal, I'll oblige. But, I think as divers we are spending too much time showing off and not enough time enjoying the show.

Anyway, I don't think you could disagree with me that I've enjoyed my personal journey thus far. LOL!