The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
My only wish was that my instructor had kept me off the bottom. He was a caver. so he has no excuse.
I wish my instructor would have...
- Thread starter mathauck0814
- Start date
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Except for the laps around the pool and pushups while wearing a steel 72, I thought my instructor did a bang-up job.
Rick
Rick
The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
Yano Rick,
Watching those shenanigans by the pool kept me from getting certified for years.
Watching those shenanigans by the pool kept me from getting certified for years.
Thanks very much.
This timing is good. We'll be teaching the new method later on this year and although much of what has changed are things that I've already been doing, it's still going to take some time to get the new checklists burned into my brain.
Later this month I'll be training my daughter. She's already been diving for almost 4 years in the pool but I never "formally" went through all the material in the required order. I'm planning on using her as a guinea pig to try out the new method. Better to do it with someone who can already dive than to have to invent my method as I go with paying students who are on a timeline LOL.
R..
---------- Post added April 25th, 2014 at 02:48 PM ----------
What do you mean by that? I'm tech trained and an active technical diver but I've never felt that one *must* be tech trained to know what they're doing.
See... what's important is that you have insight in the "level" of the skills you're trying to achieve. I'm not making technical divers out of my OW students but I do have a certain "bar" that I think they can (and should) achieve and I train them to that bar.... within the possibilities that standards offer.
This is no different, whatsoever, from what my colleagues without technical training do. They also have a certain bar in mind and train their students to that bar.
We don't always agree about where the bar should be, and one instructor may be more skilled at efficiently leading a student to that bar than another, but again, the level of training of the instructor may not be the best indicator of who is more or less efficient at teaching.
That said... in one area I do seem to see a slight bias among my tech trained colleagues. As a general rule, their students tend to have better buoyancy control coming out of OW. I think this is an difference in "accent" or "priority" but I would still not draw the conclusion that (a) technical trained instructors always do a better job of this or that (b) non tekkies do a lousy job.
To my way of thinking this line of discussion is pointless. What's much more important to an OW student is how *efficient* your instructor is at teaching; how much bang for your training time you get.
R..
This timing is good. We'll be teaching the new method later on this year and although much of what has changed are things that I've already been doing, it's still going to take some time to get the new checklists burned into my brain.
Later this month I'll be training my daughter. She's already been diving for almost 4 years in the pool but I never "formally" went through all the material in the required order. I'm planning on using her as a guinea pig to try out the new method. Better to do it with someone who can already dive than to have to invent my method as I go with paying students who are on a timeline LOL.
R..
---------- Post added April 25th, 2014 at 02:48 PM ----------
What do you mean by that? I'm tech trained and an active technical diver but I've never felt that one *must* be tech trained to know what they're doing.
See... what's important is that you have insight in the "level" of the skills you're trying to achieve. I'm not making technical divers out of my OW students but I do have a certain "bar" that I think they can (and should) achieve and I train them to that bar.... within the possibilities that standards offer.
This is no different, whatsoever, from what my colleagues without technical training do. They also have a certain bar in mind and train their students to that bar.
We don't always agree about where the bar should be, and one instructor may be more skilled at efficiently leading a student to that bar than another, but again, the level of training of the instructor may not be the best indicator of who is more or less efficient at teaching.
That said... in one area I do seem to see a slight bias among my tech trained colleagues. As a general rule, their students tend to have better buoyancy control coming out of OW. I think this is an difference in "accent" or "priority" but I would still not draw the conclusion that (a) technical trained instructors always do a better job of this or that (b) non tekkies do a lousy job.
To my way of thinking this line of discussion is pointless. What's much more important to an OW student is how *efficient* your instructor is at teaching; how much bang for your training time you get.
R..
OP
I agree. Efficiency: teaching things which won't need to be replaced with something later that could have been done up front (to carry the example forward, learning from the start to donate the primary second) is effectively what I'm talking about. Spending money on diver education where you unlearn and relearn basic skills is fundamentally inefficient.
Mathauck, Understood. There is certainly something to be said for that. To take your example of AAS protocols, I don't really see it as something that is incredibly problematic. I do agree that the long-hose/donate-primary protocol is better on the whole but to me "efficiency" means that the student is taught to be flexible and to handle an OOA situation by (a) avoiding it to begin with and (b) regardless of protocol to do what you and your buddy have agreed to ahead of time.
All of this applies equally to various gear configurations, so I see AAS as a "configuration" element and not a question of making a judgement as to what is "right" and what is "wrong". My OW students are exposed to both ideas and drilled in the one that conforms to the gear they're wearing, whatever that might be.
Ultimately it's about doing the right thing at the right time in the right way; avoiding problems where possible and and keeping in control when things get pear-shaped. And that applies equally to both recreational and to technical diving.
Gear is gear. Gear does not equate to skills, in my mind.
R..
All of this applies equally to various gear configurations, so I see AAS as a "configuration" element and not a question of making a judgement as to what is "right" and what is "wrong". My OW students are exposed to both ideas and drilled in the one that conforms to the gear they're wearing, whatever that might be.
Ultimately it's about doing the right thing at the right time in the right way; avoiding problems where possible and and keeping in control when things get pear-shaped. And that applies equally to both recreational and to technical diving.
Gear is gear. Gear does not equate to skills, in my mind.
R..
OP
I believe you're making my point for me. I wish my initial instructors were more like minded to yourself.
Nowhere on this list do I see "underwater tank valve manipulation." It seems that every year we have one or two cases where a diver jumps in with the air off or nearly off and subsequently drowns. We could *totally* eliminate this particular type diving accident if we just required students to be able reach back & turn on their air. I don't think most of today's divers have ever been required to do it, and I doubt many even can.
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mathauck0814 -- I still don't understand why transitioning to a long hose/bungee backup and other skills (like what else??) was such a problem for you that you would call it humbling and embarrassing? I mean, how many OW divers are taught on long hose? I bet less than 1% or so.
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