Input on our Accident and Incidents Forum... What do you want? How do you want it?

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

I have to agree with Ken here. Also, I agree with Pete earlier, it would never have occurred on Scubaboard, because it's not allowed.

When I tried to intervene on the trainwreck occurring on Facebook, and nicely ask people to give it a little more time before making judgements, I was attacked - by multiple people. I was honestly trying to help people help themselves - a few more hours and more information would have come out.

More info *is* coming out these days, maybe not for every death, but for a lot of them. But I am not going to demand the details, or start to speculate publicly, or even worse, consider criticizing anyone, before the body is cold. Hence my suggestion for a 24-hour quiet period before any discussion.


I still have copies of the comments made by that guy. The comments were unfounded attacks that had less to do with what he heard through the cave gossip grapevine and more to do with his personal mission to try and make himself appear to be a better person by tearing others down.

The cynical side of me says he made those comments in an effort to try and promote himself as an expert. The cynical side of me says there was a financial motive for him to do this. I really do not like all of the thoughts that the cynical side of me has had on this case because I do not want to be a negative person.
 
Last edited:
I resent that comment! ;-)
I think you meant that you resemble that remark! :D :D :D As staff, no one expects you to be reasonable... and I don't think you're a cave instructor, n'est pas?
 
You have to be a cave *instructor* to be "in the cave community"? Someone better tell Brett, Andy and Casey (and Brian and AJ and....) :)

I think you meant that you resemble that remark! :D :D :D As staff, no one expects you to be reasonable... and I don't think you're a cave instructor, n'est pas?
 
You have to be a cave *instructor* to be "in the cave community"? Someone better tell Brett, Andy and Casey (and Brian and AJ and....) :)

And Larry.
 
You have to be a cave *instructor* to be "in the cave community"? Someone better tell Brett, Andy and Casey (and Brian and AJ and....) :)
Well, I'm not a cave instructor either, so I obviously DON'T believe that. However, you would probably agree that many in the cave diving community are pretty unreasonable when it comes to online communities. I hear derisive comments about "cyber divers" all the time. We don't live and dive all the time in cave country so we aren't allowed to ask questions or have opinions. I've seen attacks against us as a whole as well as on individuals. If we ask a question it often gets blown completely out of proportion. I've been accused of demanding answers right away when that was never a part of my request. I certainly don't like the ostracism and if they are worried about 'rumors' here on SB or elsewhere, they only have themselves to blame for not coming here and posting the truth. The old crap excuse "I don't have the time" is BS when we see them posting schlock all over facebook. Facebook less: Post here more! Be an integral part of the community rather than a snipe. @kensuf is a great example of being a awesome ambassador for cave diving in this community. We would love to see more of his classes and exploits posted here, but he's not afraid of voicing his opinion. That he's a full cave instructor only adds to his credibility and reputation here. The very same can be said about @Capt Jim Wyatt. @lv2dive and I are easily ignored, but not someone like Ken or Jim. That Ken's still a Gator (after our last two losses) only shows what a trooper he is! :D

Go Gators! Ain't nuthin' greater than a Gator!
 
Hey, guys. If this is going to devolve into another FL cave diving politics thread, imma gonna leave. Just sayin'.
 
Whoa Nelly! I didn't say (and wasn't thinking) the first thing about Internet divers. All I was getting at was that there were plenty of people I would consider part of the cave community that are not cave instructors.

And to address your point regarding geography, Pete, I (personally) don't think one needs to live in cave cave country to part of the community.
FWIW I was more active before I lived here (not due to desire but some orthopedic challenges).

I don't see derisive comments often in the grand scheme of things although I acknowledge there is a bit of joke running right now. But *in general* among the people I know, no one thinks people who don't live cave country can't have opinions or ask reasonable questions. As previously noted, the demands for instant information get old.

I can't speak to your experience, only mine, and I've said, I think Scubaboard is the best place for reasonable conversations.

Well, I'm not a cave instructor either, so I obviously DON'T believe that. However, you would probably agree that many in the cave diving community are pretty unreasonable when it comes to online communities. I hear derisive comments about "cyber divers" all the time. We don't live and dive all the time in cave country so we aren't allowed to ask questions or have opinions. I've seen attacks against us as a whole as well as on individuals. If we ask a question it often gets blown completely out of proportion. I've been accused of demanding answers right away when that was never a part of my request. I certainly don't like the ostracism and if they are worried about 'rumors' here on SB or elsewhere, they only have themselves to blame for not coming here and posting the truth. The old crap excuse "I don't have the time" is BS when we see them posting schlock all over facebook. Facebook less: Post here more! Be an integral part of the community rather than a snipe. @kensuf is a great example of being a awesome ambassador for cave diving in this community. We would love to see more of his classes and exploits posted here, but he's not afraid of voicing his opinion. That he's a full cave instructor only adds to his credibility and reputation here. The very same can be said about @Capt Jim Wyatt. @lv2dive and I are easily ignored, but not someone like Ken or Jim. That Ken's still a Gator (after our last two losses) only shows what a trooper he is! :D

Go Gators! Ain't nuthin' greater than a Gator!
 
Hey, guys. If this is going to devolve into another FL cave diving politics thread, imma gonna leave. Just sayin'.
Yes sir. :(
 
Hey, guys. If this is going to devolve into another FL cave diving politics thread, imma gonna leave. Just sayin'.
Yes, guys, please! Take these discussions to facebook, they're not welcome here.
If you keep carrying on like that, the thread will be closed, until we mods have talked about how many posts to delete to protect the readers.
 
I'm following up here.

As most of you know, in April there was a fatality involving a cave diver on a CCR. This event, and the reactions to it that were posted on Facebook, are some of the reasons why I think A&I forums and the desire for immediate answers by some vocal members, need to be re-examined.

Yesterday a follow-up to the accident was posted on CDF. I am going to quote the follow-up below, but I wish to highlight a couple of points of interest.

The primary autopsy results took a little over a month to be returned. The toxicology results took six months to be returned.

However, the comments that were meant to be damaging to the people involved were posted within hours of the fatality.

Autopsies and toxicology results do not occur at internet speeds. I would encourage anyone involved in an A&I forum (anywhere) to avoid random speculation and playing the blame game.


Brent Booth:
Ginnie Springs Fatality - Apr 3, 2016 - UPDATE
This year has been a bad one for our cave community. We have lost five divers here in Florida ( that I am aware of ) and several more in other parts of the world. We will probably never have answers as to what happened in most of these accidents and as a result, accident analysis becomes difficult and sometimes impossible.

The accident at Ginnie on Apr 3 of this year involved a rebreather, which meant that opinions about what happened came from all over the world. Rebreather accidents seem to get more than their fair share of exposure!
The gear was returned to me from the local law enforcement folks in late October and the bottom line is, ALL of the gear was working correctly, including the Optima. For those of you who were on the deck at Ginnie when the Optima canister was opened, it was obvious that a small amount of water was present. I am told that this was not enough to degrade the cartridge and also we need to keep in mind that when Mike switched to open circuit, it is possible that some water entered the system. Gas analysis showed all mixes to be correct. Once again, all gear checked out perfectly.

The autopsy results came back in around a month or so but the toxicology tests seemed to take forever. The whole process took around 5-6 months and results are as follows:
Primary cause of death - Drowning
Contributing cause of death - Occluded LAD artery. This was the show stopper! In other words, a heart attack.
In the past 8 months, I have learned more about heart attacks than I ever wanted to know. and one point that the medical folks both here at Shands Hospital in Gainesville and the online sites all agree on, is that an LAD heart attack is the "heart attack of all heart attacks". Maybe that's why it's called the "Widow Maker" It probably goes without saying, that getting medical help after a heat attack is extremely important, but in the case of an LAD attack, they say that 45 minutes is the window. Not to imply that you won't survive if it takes longer to get medical help, but the odds seem to be against you.
Going back to my initial report in April, I wrote that Mike started to experience "unusual" symptoms at the 2500 foot location in Sweet Surprise. From this point, to the MapleLeaf area, took around 45 minutes, so time was running out. It was in and around this location that Mike passed.

I know that a lot of you guys and gals reading this post have a medical background, and if I've said anything that is not correct, don't hesitate to make corrections. We are all here to learn!

One last note: I got around 40 or so PMs, and I thank you all for your kind thoughts and excellent questions and I hope that I gave you the answers you were looking for, given what I knew back in April.
It's a terrible thing to lose a friend, and it hurts even more when the accident takes place when you're doing a "fun thing" I take comfort in knowing that Mike always sought out the required training and kept his skills up to date. On this day, I'm sure he fought until the last breath. Rest in peace, Mike
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

Back
Top Bottom