Instructor or Agency or You ?

[BartBe]

PhotoTJ once bubbled...
What I'm finding absolutely astounding here, is that with all the agency bashing that goes on, at time of posting, not ONE person has said it's an agency's responsibility.

hehe...

That was exactly my point in posting this thread... I had a feeling that the results would turn out this way... Everybody seems to have major problems with some agencies yet no one (so far) thinks the agencies are responsible... This will probably change now, after this post :mean:

So maybe all the agency bashing is a bit over the top and maybe we can concentrate on more important issues now...

 

[coliseum]

Diving is like Driving, the only difference is the R in Driving which I can say applies to added RESPONSIBILITY towards others,,,

When you Learn to Drive, you don't go blaming the "agency" or your instructor for how bad you are... You are responsible for your quality of Driving, so is the case with DIVING....

Qualities and knowledge is something you aquire, no one can GIVE IT TO YOU... lets say at worse case, you instructor is stupid and does not teach you things properly, isn't it up to you to challenge the things that do not make sence to you? And isn't it up to you to ensure you are learning the right things that ensure your safety?

Maybe this will be my Thesis for a Masters in Human Behaviour.....

:doctor:

 

[Walter]

BartBe,

You can't read either?

 

[jbichsel]

an "All of the above" choice.

1. Agencies are responsible for maintaining 'minimum' standards. If the agencies start lowering those standards, we end up with what we are getting in public schools. Agencies and the people that lead them, should not focus on the almighty dollar, but on safe, quality instruction. Instructor standards should be strict and rigid. Instructors who are innovative, creative and go 'above and beyond' should be recognized by their agencies. Those who who run "diver mills" should also be recognized, but not in a positive manner.

2. Instructors are responsible for interpreting the agencies material, presenting it in a way that promotes enthusiastic learning, and strict evaluation to the standards. If instructors feel the agency is becoming too lax, it is up to the instructors to unite in order to reverse those trends. Instructors should care more for their sport/occupation and students than to cut corners and short change them. Instructors must be open to feedback, pro or con, in order to improve.

3. Divers have the responsibility to continue their education, report poor instructors, and demand more from their certifying agency. The only way agencies and instructors will change, is when their bottom line is affected by the consumer.

My order of responsibility is this:

1. Instructor
2. Agency
3. Students

Some people posting here seem to put the majority of the blame on the agency. While I think the split is nearly even between instructor and agency, I think the instructors are slightly more responsible than the agency. If a majority of instructors demanded that their agency increased standards, the agency would have no choice. However, when instructors choose to swallow the pill of mediocrity, they have no one to blame but themselves for lower standards.

 

[Walter]

"If a majority of instructors demanded that their agency increased standards, the agency would have no choice."

Some agencies are not responsive. If If a majority of instructors switched agencies to one with higher standards, it would have an effect.

The problem is the instructors are not aware they are doing a poor job. They believe what they were taught in their IDC and don't know any better. You can't teach what you've never learned.

 

[PhotoTJ]

Walter, you can say what you want, bottom line is, no one has pushed the agency button. There are three choices, push the button that is most responsible. It's not that complicated.

 

[Walter]

If you say "no one has 'voted" agency, you'd get no argument, but the statements being made are not true.

 

[jbichsel]

I just checked and as of 7:53am MDT, this poll did NOT have any votes for "Agency", 14 for Instructor, and 27 for "You and only you".

Aren't agencies headed by instructors? Aren't those the people implementing policy, procedure, standards? In addition, I know that many instructors DO know they are not doing a good job.

Example: On several occasions, I have been assisting with classes as a DM with my instructor/CD. We go to a lake with a group of students for their OW/AOW dives. Upon finding a location to spread our tarps, set our equipment, we are next to another group doing the same scenario. Their instructor offers use of his float to us while they are on their SI. Fine, nice offer. My Instructor/CD pulls his CD hat out of his bag, puts it on, and we go back to the van to get more equipment. Upon returning, the instructor who offered his float, has packed up his students, gear, tarp, float, and is nowhere to be seen.

This exact scene and others very similar have happened numerous times. As soon as they find out he is a CD, they disappear. Obviously, they know they have something to hide.

I know which agency you are mainly slamming. Don't be coy.

Again, because the agency is run by instructors, instructors are mainly at fault for the decline in student instruction and the chase of the dollar.

I do agree that if a goup of enogh instructors gave an ultimatum and carried through, it would either shut down that agency or cause it to change.

For my part, I will be a vocal instructor, advocating more rigorous standards. I will teach more than the minimum standards. I want my students to be examples of how to dive well, not point of ridicule.

And as you can see from my profile, I am a member of your least favorite agency.

Sorry, we can't all be diving dieties.

 

[scubaspider]

I think that it's a combo of all three.

First it's the agency that has a well written program to teach you the basics and the essential information which will allow you to become a decient/average diver w/ practice.

Second, the instructor is responisble for assisting you in perfecting technique along w/ providing and being the example of good technique.


Finally, it's up to you to practice/perfect the techniques and skills you learned. Along w/ furthering your diving education if you wish to explore more than your certification.


So, I think it's not just one or the other....I think it's everyone involved.

 

[Divecop]

YOU are responsible for your proficiency. I think a good instructor is key to success, but you have to hone the tools (skills) they give you.