is it just me ????

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To answer the question of 'is it just me?', let me state that I don't even need to be told who the instructor was; because I know just by the very familiar story.

I highly recommend you fill out the instructor quality feedback form: http://gue.com/classroom/quality/ . I received a response to my feedback quite quickly, which resulted in quite a number of e-mails going back and forth; they take their quality control -very- seriously.
 
My experience was not like yours at all, but that is, in itself, a problem. (We were told several times GUE's intent is to keep quality the same across instructors by keeping their instructor requirements rigorous.) I should also say, I took my class in almost ideal circumstances. Only three of us were signed up for the class. The weekend of our Fundamentals class a front blew in nixing any boat diving. The instructor immediately gave us a choice of driving to the keys to dive at Jules Lodge (essentially a canal) or doing all the classroom and pool work and putting the other dives off until another weekend. (We were all local to the shop and the instructor.) We chose the latter. So with the dives put off, we had an huge amount of time to spend on classroom and pool work without being at all rushed. And the time to work on skills over an intervening weekend made a real difference when we did the ocean dives. Nevertheless, I would agree that the classroom sessions, particularly the lecture portions, are poorly thought out and overly long. The lack of decent materials is a real problem. However, I got a great learning experience for my money. I should also say that my wife and son took the class 6 months later. The experience was still good but with more people in the class and compressed to a normal 2 and 3/4 day schedule, not as good. This is really a situation where focusing and shortening the lectures would pay dividends. Restricting class size to 4 would be great but the economics probably wouldn't work.
 
Bob et al.,

I took the Fundamentals class before it was pass/fail, and since then I've been around maybe half a dozen more as an observer, helper or videographer. I've seen six different GUE instructors give the class. I just haven't seen the level of organizational problems that some people have been complaining about here. I agree that the class is not perfection on earth, and the structure and content have definitely evolved. But I think the class is structured in a way to strike a reasonable balance between many competing considerations. Because it's a compromise solution, it isn't going to be the optimum "scuba renaissance" for every participant.

The way I see it, some of the criticisms in this thread are founded on over-optimistic expectations of how much it is possible to accomplish in the available time. The basic intent of the course is to impart a large amount of information and skill training in a compressed time frame. All by itself, this is going to create some pressure on both the students and the instructors.

Some posters here have said there is too much lecture and not enough time in the water. Others have criticized the quality of the written handouts. There is a lot of material covered in lectures. In the beginning there were no written materials at all given to the students, and that has changed and improved over the intervening years. No doubt there is room for further improvement. But the oral and written lecture material is important to the class because it is intended to explain why GUE does things the way it does. If the lectures are pared down much more than they are and that time devoted to more in-water skills and practice, the result will be that there would be not enough time to explain the "whys" behind the system. The explanation for why GUE teaches something the way it does would end up being "because we said so". This is just not acceptable - one of the take-aways from the class is supposed to be at least the beginning of understanding the reasoning behind GUE standards and procedures.

Some posters have complained that they didn't get enough time to practice the in-water skills. There is a long list of in-water skills to be explained, demonstrated, practiced and then used. Given the fact that every class participant comes in with a different level of skill and experience, the amount of time devoted to teaching particular skills has to be adjusted on an ad hoc basis. Some people will find it frustrating to be paired up with buddies who are not as skilled as they are. The priority is to work on basic skills like sharing air without losing buoyancy control, and if participants are having trouble mastering the basic skills, sometimes there is not enough time to get to other skills like shooting a bag. Other people would like to spend more time perfecting a particular skill, but devoting the time to that would mean leaving out other training that is on the agenda. This is an inherent part of taking a class with other people. If you want a class devoted to just working on the skills you want to work on, you have to pay for private lessons. In a group setting, and with the limits of the time available, the intent is to show the participants what the skills should look like and how to train to achieve the goal. There is just not enough class time to do the repetitive training necessary to actually hone the skills. That is something people have to practice and perfect after the class, and I don't see how it could be any different than that.

Some posters have complained that their post-class evaluations were too short. As far as I recall, in the beginning there weren't any individual debriefings for the students after the class. When the class went to the pass/fail format, class-ending debriefs became a more formalized element, so the students could get some feedback on whether they passed or not, and what they needed to work on. Some people seem to expect more out of this de-briefing process than others, and they are entitled to their opinions, but again, there are limits to the amount of time that an instructor can take talking just to you about your issues. It seems to me that people get more important feedback, and make a more realistic self-assessment, from the video sessions during the class. If a student wants more feedback after the class is over, I don't understand why following up by email is a problem, and I have not heard that any GUE instrucor refuses or neglects to do so.

GUE has a *very* active quality assurance program, and the organization has worked hard to improve the class and to respond to criticisms and complaints. It is my understanding that GUE decided recently that Fundamentals classes should take place over three full days, instead of the previous standard two and a half, in response to many students' comments that the class was too rushed. There was some internal opposition to this because holding the class over three full days requires that both students and instructors will have to take a day off from work to participate in the class. Not everybody can do that. Those that can't are going to be shut out of the class. GUE had to decide between allocating more time to the class but potentially excluding some people who can't get off work, and compressing everything into a long weekend but keeping the class more available to participants. GUE made its choice in favor of a less rushed teaching environment, knowing that some potential participants would be excluded. I think this just illustrates that there is no one perfect answer to the problem, and that no matter how the class is structured, somebody is going to be unhappy.

This is simply my opinion, but it doesn't seem reasonable to me to expect that the class includes future free re-evaluation services from the instructor until you pass. The Fundamentals instructors I have been around routinely agree to do pretty much that, but as far as I know, they are doing that out of the goodness of their hearts and not because they have to. Because they aren't getting paid, they set up the re-evals when it is convenient for everyone involved. With that in mind, getting irritated because an instructor hasn't bought a plane ticket and flown 2000 miles just to do your re-evaluation seems a bit harsh to me. I would hope that you contacted your instructor about your re-evaluation, although it sounds as if you have made some resolution with Joe you find acceptable.

My view is that the Fundamentals class is an intense but rewarding learning experience. It appears to me that the content and structure of the class have been carefully thought out, and designed to strike a reasonable compromise between competing time demands. Like all endeavors, it can stand improvement and doesn't always succeed in meeting its goals, but I think it's head and shoulders above the competition.
 
Excellent post Bill. I agree.

Just to add to what Bill has posted, the class runs much smoother when the sponsor has his or her act together. I have arranged and brought in multiple (3) instructors on two occasions and have sat in or helped with several other classes. Please make sure all the logistics have been taken care of ahead of time and keep travel time between the lectures and water time to a minimum.

My original class was very rushed, yet still an excellent class. We spent way too much time traveling when we could have been in class. Those were very late night lectures. I think we finished no earlier than 1 am IIRC. We covered eveything we were supposed to and yet only had three dives in that class. From that class, we now have two excellent GUE instructors in Brandon and Scot as well as several Cave 2 and Tech 1 divers. Despite the rush, AG, MHK, RJ and Dan did an excellent job. I can only imagine how much better it would have seemed if the logistics had been worked out properly prior to the class.
 
This has been a very interesting thread you started Bob,

Having just finished fundies I also felt rushed and there was a lot of confusion, but that was no fault of the instructor (Joe) we had bad weather, long drives to and from the classroom to water (about 35 min. each way) and good old "murphy" decided to made frequent appearances in person. I arrived at the class about 1pm, we had 3 hours of class, broke for a couple of hours while errands were run, met back together and finished about 9pm. Next day we had to move into town for the dive due to weather and ended up only getting one dive in. Lots of problems with gear, tank fills, out of hydro rentals, etc.. The third day we spent most of the morning trying to find a suitable site (my fault since I suggested we take a look at the original site, which had now reportedly calmed down enough to use, only to find out it was still too rough) and finally got 2 more tanks used up, then headed back for final class time, etc.. I felt bad for Joe because so much of his teaching time got eaten up by problems (some we created for him and some out of everyone's control)

What I did get from all of this was an understanding of where I could get to in my diving ability and what I needed to change in order to get there. Even if I had passed (I got a provisional) I think I would want to take it again in a few months because there is so much material, I'd like another chance to ask questions and learn once everything "clicks." Joe was kind enough to allow me to record all the lectures, so I am listening to all of them again (went through them once already at work) and hope that I will be ready the next time he comes over. This time I am determined to host the class on Maui myself! :D

SharkmasterBC - I understand what you are saying about the "instructors hat" - I have a similar problem (though that was not why I didn't pass) Being a teacher at heart (not diving though) I find it difficult sometimes to go into "student" mode. Not that I'm unteachable, it's just that when I see someone needing help and I know the answer it's really hard to keep out of it... I love teaching for the simple sake of seeing the "light come on" when they get it. I found myself a couple of times in the fundies class having to remind myself to let someone else teach. I think Joe needed to remind me of that a couple of times too - lol.

Whatever you do, "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" so to speak. All organizations have things to work on, especially in their infancy, but GUE is off to a really good start.

Aloha, Tim

btw - we got an actual power point presentaion that was well made, with large doses of Joes humor to help us stay focused. I'm really glad I got the chance to go.
 
Well, since it seems to be the week for re-opening old DIR threads … it’s my turn.

I finally got to take my DIR-F re-evaluation yesterday … and I have to say it was well worth the wait. This time around I was taking it with a different instructor (Joe Talavera), and in a different format than the DIR-F class I originally took a year ago. The class has been lengthened to three full days, and I think that’s a tremendous benefit to the students. The re-eval consisted of participating in the third day of class … which was a full 12 hours of on-site discussion, in-water skills, lecture, and one-on-one evaluations.

Joe put me into a team that had already been working together for the first two days of the class, and I was pleasantly surprised by how well we were able to coordinate our activities and communicate without any prior experience diving together. In fact, it was a lot like diving with my usual DIR-trained buddies. We “clicked” from the get-go.

The class consisted of two teams of three divers per team. Joe had run a triangular line with the float/upline at one point. Each team took one of the other points to do their skills. While one team was demonstrating and getting video’ed, the other team was practicing skills and providing each other with feedback. This proved to be an effective use of time, and every student had a chance to practice the things they felt needed work … I could see improvement in my teammate’s skills as the day progressed, and they provided me with some important tips on how to improve things I wanted to work on. Watching the videos afterward, it was obvious that this approach benefited individual divers and the team as a whole.

Joe’s got a relaxed, casual teaching style that I found really appropriate to this type of class … it’s a delicate balancing act between imposing a high standard of performance and helping the students remember to have fun, and Joe managed to do it in a way that made everyone just relax and make the most of the learning opportunities.

So, to bring this thread full-circle … this is what I was hoping to experience when I initially signed up for the DIR-F class … it was organized, thorough, and provided a clear understanding of where I’m at as a diver and where I should go from here. The only thing I regret at this point is that I didn’t opt to take the whole class over again … if the first two days were as beneficial as the final one, it would’ve been worth it.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Congrats, Bob!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now will you please hurry up and become a DIR instructor and come out here to Spokane and teach me the class.
 
Rick Inman:
Congrats, Bob!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now will you please hurry up and become a DIR instructor and come out here to Spokane and teach me the class.

Take it with Joe ... I will never be that good.

Or wait till they decide to complete Josh's IE ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
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