Junk equipment

[jstbecauz]

Since it is all really "Life Saving Equipment" regardless of the brand, I would have to assume that there will have to be some quality assurance that is maintained.

I could see where a company may use a better piece due to quality, but even the entry level equipment is still held to a certian standard.

Sounds like a sales pitch. Maybe he is trying to promote you his own personal brand he is just bringing to the market

 

[miketsp]

I've heard about that last bit but I've never seen a clone piece of equipment for real so I'm calling it an urban myth. In any case it doesn't look like a huge problem.
..snip..

Well, I bought a clone for my wife in 2002 and she used it until 2005 on hundreds of dives many in the 30 - 45m range. It always performed beautifully and outperformed many regs 2 or 3 times the price. We only substituted it because our LDS burned off a top end Aqualung model being discontinued and we got it for a very cheap price.

When we bought the clone, the LDS did not hide the fact and explained that the same Taiwanese factory that produced for top end American and Italian brands also sold unbranded regs from the same molds and tooling. As far as he could tell there was no quality difference on the metal parts just the use of some slightly cheaper plastics for housings where tolerances and appearance were non critical.

I still consider this reg was a bargain and it's still in my bag as a reserve reg set.
I have no qualms using it.
Maybe there are some poor quality clones out there but it wasn't my experience.

 

[Dixie Sands]

Utter BS.

Most regs are diaphragm nowadays. He just wants to use scare tactics so you will be afraid to buy from anyone but him.

Most regs are diaphragm???? Where are you getting this info?

 

[ams511]

I heard the same thing when I took my open water. My instructor told me the US Diver (Aqualung) Conshelf 21 was junk. It was junk because he did not get a commission on the sale because it was on special. Well known dive companies are not going to produce junk because the liabilty risks are too high.

 

[ams511]

I can understand the theory that the LDS will scare new (and naive) students into purchasing equipment that they might recommend because they "personally" know that the equipment performs well, but what I don't understand is why the LDS or any employee there would risk losing a long term relationship with a customer that is more valuable than selling only a single set of gear for around a grand to a "newbie" only to have the customer later feel that they may have been ripped off.

The only explanation for my situation that I can think of is that my LDS deals with a lot of college students that are only around the area for a few years before moving on, so the LDS must "milk" these students for what they can to survive.

It is a numbers game. They train 10 students and maybe only 1-2 buy gear in excess of what is required for the course. Most new divers aren't diving a year or two afterwards so they don't see you as a long-term customer. In all probablity you won't be. This is the best time to hard sell you gear purchases, you are captive and do not know any better. Once you are certified and want to buy gear you will probably buy online anyway.

 

[The Chairman]

he said that many of the online scuba equipment providers (LeisurePro, DiveSport, and other online companies) buy equipment on the "gray" market, or get equipment that was discarded by the manufacturer as defective or of lesser quality, or even produced in asia with a brand name label slapped on.

LeisurePro has been known to sell gray market... but saying that about DiveSports is more utter BS.

The paradigm is shifting. It used to be that gear sales subsidized training. With the advent of SMART consumers and a ready online supply of equipment, this is not economically viable. Shops such as Dire Rite Express, ScubaToys and DiveSports have responded well to these market changes exceedingly well. They don't rely on disseminating misinformation.

 

[The Chairman]

When people start presenting things in black and white, your BS-O-Meter should be ringing off the hook. Calling gear "junk", a training agency "dangerous" or a diving style as the "only way" are a few examples of people falling to this faulty "either/or" mentality. People feel a need to justify their decisions to the extreme, often flaming those who disagree with them. They have a tendency to present their opinions as fact and are surprised that not everyone sees their logic.

What to do?

First, don't get caught up in the agency/gear/configuration bashing thing. IOW, keep an open mind.

Second, get your information from multiple sources. It's pretty easy to do right here!

Finally, have fun. That's why we scuba dive: to have fun. Don't let other's negativism or fear mongering ruin the joy of being submersed.

 

[spectrum]

When I was in class the other day, our teacher was telling us what brands are good to look for. He started talking about how companies (as an example) will buy lots of pistons for the regs and test them and throw the crap ones out. The he talk ed of dumpster divers and how they put the junked parts in their equipment and sell it real cheap. He wouldn't name companies b/c he'd get in trouble. Can anyone give me some hints or PM me about these companies? Or heck, if you don't care, post it here.

And let me guess.... Brand X that the shop owner personally inspected has a magnificent quality control program and safety record. So to be at ease get your brand X gear from us right away!

It's either total stupidity or preying on the student instructor relationship. Run the other way.

Pete

 

[Web Monkey]

When I was in class the other day, our teacher was telling us what brands are good to look for. He started talking about how companies (as an example) will buy lots of pistons for the regs and test them and throw the crap ones out. The he talk ed of dumpster divers and how they put the junked parts in their equipment and sell it real cheap. He wouldn't name companies b/c he'd get in trouble. Can anyone give me some hints or PM me about these companies? Or heck, if you don't care, post it here.

I can believe that companies buy lots of parts and throw out the bad. It happens all the time. In fact, you wouldn't want it any other way.

However no manufacturer is going to go "dumpster diving" to get the bad parts to build regs with. The liability (civil and criminal) would be too huge.

OTOH, this doesn't mean that there are no poorly or cheaply designed regs out there. The first regulator I ever had contains a second stage valve that would be more appropriate on a car tire than a SCUBA reg.

I'm certain your instructor was trying to get you to buy the brand his shop carries, which may or may not be excellent equipment, regardless of the story he told you.

 

[CenTexDivin]

It is a numbers game. They train 10 students and maybe only 1-2 buy gear in excess of what is required for the course. Most new divers aren't diving a year or two afterwards so they don't see you as a long-term customer. In all probablity you won't be. This is the best time to hard sell you gear purchases, you are captive and do not know any better. Once you are certified and want to buy gear you will probably buy online anyway.

At most other LDS, 10 students might be average for a class session, however this is an LDS that is also used to teach scuba for course credit through a university. There are at least 7 different Basic labs during the week with around 8-12 people in most, not including the instructor or AI. I believe that there is around 16 people in my lab, only because there's the instructor, and two AI in training, myself and a young woman. The classrooms are held less frequently but as a larger group. There are also 2 Advanced/Master classes this semester, which requires the purchase of more gear, pretty much everything short of a bc, regs, and tanks.

Point being, there are plenty of opportunities for the LDS to make money off of the many "newbie" students that may buy gear and then let it sit in a closet, but in addition to myself, a few of my AI classmates are beginning to tire of hearing that just because we find a deal either online or at another LDS, that we're gonna get a raw deal. My instructor's warning story about buying online is that he had a "buddy" that bought a set of regs off of ebay, and when he received it, it was a box with a bunch of parts (he didn't clarify if everything was taken apart, or if it was simply ordered and not put together). I could say that it is likely the fault of the buyer for not getting enough information to make an intelligent decision about the purchase, but I don't want to cross him by telling him that.

While many people do rush into the purchase of gear, I have spent untold hours trying to find very esoteric specs (flow rates at depth, etc.) that I can use to try to differentiate one set of regs from another rather than simply pick one because something looks cool or is made from titanium or carbon fiber.

If anything I appreciate you motivating me write this, because it's allowed to me reevaluate my shopping experience at the LDS that I'm training at.