LDS Package Discount

[rrweather]

Don't bet on that. There are shops that refuse to service gear based on where it was purchased. Other may attempt to punish through ridiculously inflated prices. Many dive shops are run by divers who are not businessmen.

A local Aqualung shop told me how the AL distributor encouraged him to refuse to service any AL regulator that was not purchased from an authorized dealer. AL provides their authorized dealers a data base to look up such information.

Of course AL encourages that. Be pissed at AL, not the LDS. That is their method of trying to stop you from buying from unauthorized sellers, which is a whole different argument. If you buy the gear from an authorized seller, then take it to a different authorized seller for service, I would be willing to bet the 2nd dealer would gladly service your gear. If not, they're foolish and you probably don't want to deal with them anyway.

When you introduce unauthorized dealers into the mix, you're no longer comparing apples to apples because technically, the unauthorized dealer shouldn't be selling the same item. And, back to my original argument that the LDS may offer additional perks that make their prices more competitive, buying from an authorized dealer is one of them. Not having to worry about getting gear serviced may be of value to someone. Now, maybe one buyer sees this as worthy of higher prices while another does not.

Continuing with the car example...let's say your local Ford dealer got their hands on a truckload of brand new Chevy trucks. They got such a great deal that they were selling the trucks for less than the local Chevy dealer could even get them for. The catch was, if you bought the Chevy, brand new, from the Ford dealer, Chevy was not going to support you or provide you with the warranty that normally comes with the truck. Would you be pissed off that you bought a Chevy from a Ford dealer and now Chevy and its dealers wouldn't support you? Would having the warranty and support of the Chevy dealers be worth more to you than getting the truck at the absolute lowest price?

In a perfect world (from the LDS eyes), you would only be able to buy certain brands from certain stores. If all stores were authorized sellers of what they sell, then all sellers of that brand would be competing on almost fair grounds. That would mean that if you wanted AL products, you would go to as many AL dealers as you desired and let them compete for your business. Then, when it comes time to service the gear, you could do the same comparison for servicing prices. The problem is when you introduce unauthorized sellers into the equation, it is much harder for the LDS to compete because they are competing against someone that shouldn't even be in the competition. In an effort to stop buyers from going to the unauthorized sellers, the LDS and/or the manufacturer do things to discourage those sales. The LDS isn't doing anything to stop you from buying gear from other authorized sellers. They are trying to stop you from buying from the stores that they can't compete with. Some call it shady while others call it smart business. The bottom line is that if these unauthorized sellers didn't sell the same products, there wouldn't be the that issue.

Anyway, I wasn't looking to start some argument about the LDS and online shops. That's been done before. I'm sure the OP didn't want that. I merely wanted to bring up the fact that, if you compare more than just bottom line pricing, the LDS MAY offer similar value to the online shops. On the other hand, they may not. I personally support both my LDS and my "online LDS."

I'm glad the OP was able to work something out with the shop. It is nice to walk in and be called by your name. It's also nice to have immediate local support with the equipment you own. Enjoy the gear!

 

[redacted]

You can win them all and I understand, but don't go some place with no intention of buying just to gain the knowledge of the particular item and size to buy it elsewhere. Don't get me wrong feel free to come in ask question about gear etc, but dont just use the LDS as a fitting room and nothing more.

I guess I still don't understand. What makes you believe the customers you are talking about came into your store with no intention of buying???

Did you indicate to these customers a willingness to match prices?

If no, did you indicate a willingness to negotiate the prices?

 

[atedeschi]

I guess I still don't understand. What makes you believe the customers you are talking about came into your store with no intention of buying???

Did you indicate to these customers a willingness to match prices?

If no, did you indicate a willingness to negotiate the prices?

Yes I did, I told them that after they decieded on what they wanted I would come up with a price and if they came up with the same gear online for cheaper I would look it up and see if I could do the same.

I understand not everyone is going to buy from me. Anyway the OP got what they needed this thread should be closed.

 

[AXL72]

But it sounds to me like the tack shop you worked with is as stupid as some LDSs. To punish a customer who purchased online, you denied him service. So you lose the sale, then lose his service business. And you lose that customer and perhaps others that might listen to him. DUMB

AWAP is right. I bought online, and the the color and worth of my money for sevice is the same as the color and worth of money of the people that buy from the LDS.

Stupid is correct, and I am sorry if it offends. I went in with a problem asking for service once at the LDS, and it was a very slow day for the LDS. They would have rather price gouged and turned me away and twiddle their thumbs the remainder of the day with absolutely no other revenue coming in that day than to have charged me the same price as their customers that buy gear from them. Makes me wonder "How's that strategy working out for ya?". I said srew it, and shipped the equipment back to the online dealer, still at a savings over the reidiculaous price at the LDS.

IMO, this simply increases overhead that justifies the exhorborant pricing at the LDS. I am not saying that high prices are wrong when they have to cover stupid overhead mistakes like the above mentioned. I am just saying that the overhead has to come down for the LDS to be more able to be competitive. I think the LDS's who do this elevated price or refusal of service are missing a few parts in their head.

Although, on a tangent, there is another business that recognizes shopping around is not to their liking. Harley Davidson of all companies has taken steps to discourage buying a bike in colorado when you live in Illinois, California or Houston. For some reason, they feel that their shop that services the bike but does not sell you the bike loses money or something. Not sure how that works, but Harley Davidson feels strongly about it.

To each their own. If the answer to "well ,how the heck is that working for you" is positive, then hey, more power to ya. Keep doing what you are doing, I suppose.

 

[redacted]

I guess they either did not believe you or did not like something about the store. You can't win them all.

 

[Ren127]

Awap - Here's the problem. When a Local shop accepts gear from the internet to send in for warranty work or repair they take on the liability of handling gear they don't know the history of. On more than one occasion we got screwed (at the tack shop) and ended up having to eat the cost due to sending in gray market equipment that the manufacturer wouldn't fix. One occasion we sent something in and the company refused to return it because they said it was counterfeit now we have a customer on our hands that's mad at us because their tack is gone. Remember- we didn't sell it, we were simply doing the client a favor of handling the "warranty work".

I don't think it's dumb (as you put it) at all for a local shop to deny servicing something that didn't come from an authorized retailer.


I'm guilty of this topic swaying as well but.......

This really wan't meant to turn in to a internet vs. LDS battle- I was looking for an idea of what LDSs in other areas do for package discounts- very few people have actually answered the question I was looking for an answer to... Let's get this back on topic- there are lots of other threads to have the great debate Thanks!

 

[redacted]

Awap - Here's the problem. When a Local shop accepts gear from the internet to send in for warranty work or repair they take on the liability of handling gear they don't know the history of. On more than one occasion we got screwed (at the tack shop) and ended up having to eat the cost due to sending in gray market equipment that the manufacturer wouldn't fix. One occasion we sent something in and the company refused to return it because they said it was counterfeit now we have a customer on our hands that's mad at us because their tack is gone. Remember- we didn't sell it, we were simply doing the client a favor of handling the "warranty work".

I don't think it's dumb (as you put it) at all for a local shop to deny servicing something that didn't come from an authorized retailer.


I'm guilty of this topic swaying as well but.......

This really wan't meant to turn in to a internet vs. LDS battle- I was looking for an idea of what LDSs in other areas do for package discounts- very few people have actually answered the question I was looking for an answer to... Let's get this back on topic- there are lots of other threads to have the great debate Thanks!

Internet sites are somebody's LDS so the issue is one LDS vs another. All you really know is the gear was not purchased from your store. My local shop usually provides service discounts for a period for gear bought from him. All others, regardless of where the gear was obtained, pay the normal service price.

Your argument basically says if you didn't sell it and, therefore, don't know the history, that you should not service it. Your call, but don't complain about business being slow if you turn away paying customers. Warranty work is a somewhat different story, but not entirely because scuba warranties generally only cover parts and not labor. So you are still turning away paying customers. Of course, if you are unable to provide the required service, then you always have to opportunity to return it to the customer with your regrets.

As far as the original question goes, didn't you already buy your package in a deal you found satisfactory?

 

[Ren127]

Warranty work is a little different in the horse world- equipment goes back to the manufacturer. Local shops don't service anything. My original point is that we never went out of the way for someone that bought elsewhere- part of our service would be to offer a loaner while equipment was being repaired - or just give the person something out of our inventory while we waited for a replacement or free fittings (this is more complicated with horses because it required me going to the person's barn- you can't exactly bring the horse to the shop - hehe) We were never rude, we just didn't go out of our way to help someone that wasn't supporting us. Business wasn't slow- and I never said anything about turning away paying customers..... We didn't provide freebies for non paying customers.


Yes- I did buy gear, but am still interested in the answers people have for the original question.

 

[ReefHound]

Awap - Here's the problem. When a Local shop accepts gear from the internet to send in for warranty work or repair they take on the liability of handling gear they don't know the history of.

That's rubbish with respect to the dive industry, for two reasons.

One, the shop/tech never knows the history of a piece of gear. When a diver brings in a reg for annual service, even if the shop sold him the reg a year earlier, it doesn't know what happened in that year such as how often it was used, in what conditions, how it was maintained, whether it was dropped or stored in a hot trunk or dunked in the rinse tank without dust cap or whatever. All it knows is what the diver tells them.

Two, it doesn't matter anyway. The reg is what it is, it's history is irrelevant. It's the effects of that history that matters and the tech will see it for himself. There is either metal corrosion or there isn't. There are either cracks and scratches or there aren't. Some parts are always replaced, others based on their condition. If a part is replaced on a time interval and there is no proof of the last time of replacement, it gets replaced. Customer gets billed for all work.

On more than one occasion we got screwed (at the tack shop) and ended up having to eat the cost due to sending in gray market equipment that the manufacturer wouldn't fix. One occasion we sent something in and the company refused to return it because they said it was counterfeit now we have a customer on our hands that's mad at us because their tack is gone. Remember- we didn't sell it, we were simply doing the client a favor of handling the "warranty work".

That's not at all what we are talking about here. We are talking about divers who are either willing to pay for the service done or provide adequate documentation that an item is authorized and eligible for manufacturer coverage.

In the dive industry, most servicing and repairs are done at the shop level. Still it's a shop's responsibility to protect itself from loss by verifying that the service or repair is either covered by the manufacturer or will be paid by the customer beforehand.

 

[rrweather]

That's not at all what we are talking about here. We are talking about divers who are either willing to pay for the service done or provide adequate documentation that an item is authorized and eligible for manufacturer coverage.

In the dive industry, most servicing and repairs are done at the shop level. Still it's a shop's responsibility to protect itself from loss by verifying that the service or repair is either covered by the manufacturer or will be paid by the customer beforehand.

The problem is that certain manufacturers discourage LDS from servicing gear that had been bought from unauthorized sellers. The manufacturers are doing this to stop people from buying online, thus making you buy locally from the brick and mortar store. The bottom line is that some online shops sell gear that they are not authorized to sell. This takes away sales from the LDS. In an effort to prevent this, the manufacturers and some LDS choose to not perform work on those products. They are simply using the only strategy they have left in trying to get you to buy from an authorized shop. Whether or not it is right or wrong is beside the point. If you really want a certain piece of gear, and you want the warranty and/or service that comes with that gear, asking you to buy it from an authorized seller is not asking too much. After all, part of what you are buying is the warranty and/or ease of service. Expecting to buy the same gear for a rock-bottom price from an unauthorized seller, then walking into an authorized repair facility and expect them to accept you with open arms is stupid.

No one is forced to buy the gear from an authorized seller. LP allows you to buy both products for which they are authorized to sell and products for which they are not authorized sellers. If you choose to save money buying a product from a seller that is not authorized, great, it is your choice. Just don't bitch when you don't get the same service or support you would have gotten buying from an authorized seller. You received the product at a discount so you should not expect the same support you would receive elsewhere.

I bring up the car example again. If I really want a Lexus and the service/support Lexus provides, I wouldn't buy one at a Ford dealer because I can save some money. If I did buy it at a Ford dealer, I wouldn't expect Lexus to give me the same service I would get buying the car from Lexus itself. When I purchased my vehicle (not a Lexus) the dealer told me that if I purchased from them and brought the vehicle to them for service, I could get a free loaner car. Those were their terms. It would be unrealistic of me to buy the car elsewhere and expect a loaner car for free because I brought it there for service. Obviously I would be paying for the service but that alone does not entitle me to the same benefits I would get buying the car there. Once again, their terms. If I don't like their terms, I could have bought from another dealer or bought another brand under my terms. If I want what they offer, I get it by purchasing under their terms. I wasn't forced to buy from them nor was I forced to buy that brand of automobile.

The old saying "you want your cake and you want to eat it too" applies. People want to buy the gear from the cheapest seller, then want the best service. The game doesn't work that way. If you don't like the game, play a different one. If you want certain brands of dive gear, and you want the service and or warranty that comes with that brand, then buy it from an authorized seller. If you don't care, then buy it from whoever you want. You are trading that service for a savings.

A LDS has the right to charge whatever they want for service. If you don't like the price, you have the right to shop elsewhere. If the LDS charges less to service gear you purchased from them, they can afford to because of the profits they made selling you the gear. If you buy elsewhere, they didn't profit from you buying the gear so they have the right to charge more for the service. Once again, if you want the discounted service, buy from them.

Servicing more gear does not lower a LDS's "stupid overhead." Overhead comes in the form of rent, utilities, insurance, salaries, etc. It does not come in the form of not servicing gear. If the shop you went into chose to charge you more, then so be it. You chose to walk out, which is your right. Had they serviced your gear for less, their overhead would not have been reduced at all.

If you are dead set on buying your gear online because you can save a few bucks, then buy brands that allow their gear to be sold online. You get the best of both worlds and you won't have issues getting the gear serviced. No one is forcing you to buy a particular brand of dive gear.