LDS - They have a bad attitude.

[jffknapp]

So I'm one of the guys behind the counter...NO THAT GUY...and usually its the service tech counter but still. I just wanted to let you know that there are some out there that will go the extra mile for our customers. We closed at 7pm tonight and I was there sizing and fitting and helping some divers because the gear they got online didn't fit right and because I love it when people take the plunge into getting their own gear. Yes partially because that means they spend money but also because it shows to me that they are serious about diving and I like being a part of that.

Dive shop owners deserve A LOT of credit when it comes to managing funds in an industry that is 98% recreational, especially in a slow economy. They are typically very VERY busy and trying to personally juggle every possibility that is out there. While owners are typically the type to dive in a puddle of dirty water if that's all they could get, the shops that have issues tend to have staff...much less interested and thus much less informed in all things diving. The better shops are the ones with business oriented owners that know the benefits of having knowledgeable, well trained staff.

I am a firm believer in telling the person & their boss when something is jacked up! Constructively that is and it is necessary if we expect better customer service from places. Tell me I was too quick or seemed unfocused when I was talking to you, I want to know. Tell the owner you would have got your wife a new reg had the guy he was paying to be his representative been able to make a complete sentence that would help my needs as a customer.

I want my customers to help me be better at helping them. Nothing is out of the question, including price. You see are stupid crazy deal on evilpro.com, ask us if we can match it. I may laugh a bit and say heck no but I betcha between reduced cost of servicing, discount, or whatever else I can swing, I'm gonna try and get you in what you want for a price you can afford. Keep in mind too that this community is a small one. Buy a reg from evilscubatoys.com and then have issues with it and need some tech love and we know...oh yes we know!! Nothing says "I could have bought this reg from you but I decided to ignore you for the sake of buying it in my PJs at 1am" more than having a reg problem on a reg you got online while on a LDS trip. I would rather you buy gear from another LDS before you get something online!

 

[Hammerhead]

You want a real "cold shoulder"? Walk in with 70's era equipment that you only desire annual service on (which are still servicable, and parts available). Believe me, that is when they get down right unsociable.....

Unlucky. I walk into my LDS with 50's and 60's double hoses and the manager greets me like his long-lost brother - he remembers diving them when they were new(ish)!

I let him borrow them in return for cheapo services, and we're both happy. He's even been known to machine and modify parts for me when things got beyond my know-how.

 

[k ellis]

I have been to a few dive shops where service was not so good and needed alot of improvement. I dont know why people dont realize that just because they cant out price the internet does not mean they can not give better service that often times wins people over.

A LDS has so much to offer that the internet can not and its important that they should note how people can turn a small experience like an air fill into a life long partnership. Ive seen shops rip people open for buying tanks on the internet and down right trash other dive gear that they do not sale.

Its important to realize while people may buy say a Mares brand BCD that it was either 1 of 3 things. It was either priced right, was what they were looking for or they just lucked into a good deal they could not refuse. With that being said some divers may have gear subpar to some the types of diving they will be doing but none the less take pride in the gear they have. The last thing they want to hear is someone say "Mares is a bad brand and the devil for letting their products be sold on the internet"

Ive walked into shops before with my Zeagle and was treated like I was the enemy sneeking in to sabatoge the store when in fact all I was doing was asking about dive gear and maybe some gadgets for the zeagle. If they dont sale Zeagle then its fine its their choice but I really did not want to hear a 1 hour lecture about how bad they are.

Like say I work in a customer service field among other things I do and people want to be noticed even if it is too just look around. I dont like the car salesman approach where you have to bring a body guard with you but a simple how are you and is there anything I can help you with go a LONG way.

Its a fact of life that people want to save money anyway they can and its only going to get worse with the economy. What gets me though is so many dive shop employees and owners treat people like dirt because people bought online to save sometimes 50 percent or more and yet these owners and empoyees are people who go down to Walmart and shop for groceries as opposed to the other grocery store outlets because they get groceries cheaper there.

Shops in most cases cant compete with internet sales in a lot of cases but they can out service them. After all where can you buy a computer and then when you get a lemon (It does happen from time to time) and take it back to the shop the same day and perhaps get it remedied on the spot? Internet does not allow that same response time as it has to be shipped (Even sometimes at customers expense for shipping)

And as others mentioned an honest non biased sales man who does not rip a diver apart for buying brand x but instead agrees to look it over and just give good friendly constructive advice will go along way.

Its like my LDS here. There are 2 of them here and I try to stay open minded and neutral as many divers find fault with one or the other (And occasionaly both) its going to happen that some customers just are not going to be happy even if the shop gave away a free lottery ticket worth millions.

In short my point is though I am sold entirely on a small amount of points.

1.) store cleanliness. It has to look like a shop not some guys garage the day hes moving in to
his house
2.) courtesy is a must. I like people to be happy I stopped in and know just because I did not buy
today does not mean I wont come back and buy tommorow.
3.) Hygiene is a must I hate it when people look like they just crawled out of bed and came to
work
4.) believe it or not this I can work around but it does score points is uniforms. I love a place that
puts pride in the way their employees look and the way they dress. And its a must they be
in good repair not looking like they were on some one who got stranded on a deserted island
for 15 years
5.) Non Biased and does not tear me down because I chose brand x over his brand or even bought
his brand from the internet at 50 percent cheaper (Rare cases) Because if I have a bad
experience with the internet and a good one with the shop working with me guess where I am
coming next?

Just my rant and now I am done

 

[divermike1011]

My two cents:

I are dm (soon to be instructor) so I don't spend a lot of time selling gear. However, since I like making a living if I see someone in the shop looking lost (and our dive shop for whatever reason often has non-divers as sales staff) I'll ask them what they are interested in, what type of diving they do and if they want help. I rarely want help when I go shopping, so I extend the same courtesy to others, usually with a "holler if you have questions" line. We only sell Oceanic, so if someone comes in and says the want SCUBAPRO I happily provide directions to a shop that sells SCUBAPRO. I do this for two reasons: one, I don't make commission, so I only really care about the customer gets something they want, and two, I figure if I'm not a dick they might come back and take a class with us. Or maybe ask questions about Oceanic. Whatever, I don't want to make the guy feel like an ******* for asking about a product we don't carry.

Perfect example was today a guy came in and wanted to know about spear fishing. My boss is very anti-spear fishing so I sent him down the road to a place that specializes in it. Guess what, half hour later he walked back in and booked a dive with us.

Hell, depending on what the customer wants I will refer them to an online retailer because especially if it's tech gear it's hard to get on island.

Michael

 

[k ellis]

My two cents:

I are dm (soon to be instructor) so I don't spend a lot of time selling gear. However, since I like making a living if I see someone in the shop looking lost (and our dive shop for whatever reason often has non-divers as sales staff) I'll ask them what they are interested in, what type of diving they do and if they want help. I rarely want help when I go shopping, so I extend the same courtesy to others, usually with a "holler if you have questions" line. We only sell Oceanic, so if someone comes in and says the want SCUBAPRO I happily provide directions to a shop that sells SCUBAPRO. I do this for two reasons: one, I don't make commission, so I only really care about the customer gets something they want, and two, I figure if I'm not a dick they might come back and take a class with us. Or maybe ask questions about Oceanic. Whatever, I don't want to make the guy feel like an ******* for asking about a product we don't carry.

Perfect example was today a guy came in and wanted to know about spear fishing. My boss is very anti-spear fishing so I sent him down the road to a place that specializes in it. Guess what, half hour later he walked back in and booked a dive with us.

Hell, depending on what the customer wants I will refer them to an online retailer because especially if it's tech gear it's hard to get on island.

Michael

You would definately get my return buisness.

 

[ajtoady]

Right now the business world is a tough place. It's hard for your LDS to compete with the "Walmarts" online. Yes the prices and selection are somewhat better but, are you always getting what you want or paid for? Do you get your gas, air, online? My LDS realizes what is out there and tries to compete the best he can. With that said, the Dive Shop is not his only source of income( go figure). I am a firm believer in supporting the local shops. I have bought all of my essential gear from my LDS, wetsuits, regs, BC, tanks, fins, masks, etc. Yes I might pay a little more but, in doing so I also keep a local source of service and supplies. Besides it's only money and they print more every day.

 

[CamG]

Greetings fellow divers the model for the perfect LDS I have witnessed here in IN at a LDS in INDY.
Very personable and customer service oriented all the way.
They have been doing this type of salesmanship for some time and they are a long way form either ocean.
They have a very active dive club that sponsors trips and excursions all over so it not only promotes diving but helps generate gear sales as well.

This past few years has been very tough economy for retail in general so I understand.
I have worked around retail for that last 18 years and understand the issues with overhead, customer service, difficult customers, on-line retailers, and to be honest sometimes it is just to much crap for any one person to take.
Owning a LDS or small business is not easy and you have to have a gift for being personally motivated, positive attitude, and love to serve people "even the tough ones".
Any customer service person will tell you that it has gotten so much worse to please people in this current time.
However it is possible to please most 98% at least you always have some who are not happy with anything. THEY DO EXIST and it is challenging to serve them.

I am not trying to excuse the behavior of these LDS's but give a window into some of the why's they act like they do.
I love diving and when selling gear try to help guide customers into what will serve them best in my opinion but if they are set on another brand I assist them finding it.
That is one of the great things about diving there are many different types of gear that get you into diving.
I try to stay current on research to know what is new and the quirks about some of the companies. No one is perfect but some excel at customer service.

When it comes to sending a new starting diver into a shop the requirements for me are simple and direct.
The LDS must be honest, be able to put a package deal together in the customers price range.
They have to be trustworthy for me to put my reputation on the line for them.
I do care about this very much and it only takes a bad experience to change a lot of PR that we do when we train students.
Lets face it if you are familiar with LDS models some shops are full retail selling less trying to make it.
Some focus on selling volume for less to make the same if not better numbers.
The bottom line both are trying to stay in business and must make a profit to remain open. Who is right and who is wrong? There is no right or wrong approach.
An LDS lives and dies on its CUSTOMER SERVICE alone!

If we are turned off or treated badly it is over we are not going to spend a dime in that shop! That is how I roll personally and advocate the same behavior.
I need to clarify that these instances are justifiable not petty personality conflicts.
I try to treat others the way I would want them to treat me.
I is funny when you disarm potential clients with kind words, speak the truth, and earnestly seek to make them happy even if it was their fault.
I have won the respect of those who were very upset and left them happy which makes me believe and maintain a positive attitude.
We can make a difference and I mean ALL OF US!

CamG Keep Diving....Keep Training....Keep Learning!

 

[Searcaigh]

When I am traveling and come across a dive shop I usually pop in for a look see, and invariably buy something, usually something that I know I need or have not been able to find locally here in UAE.

Last US shop I popped into last December was in Orlando, bought a hooded vest, weightbelt for soft weights, metal pointer and a small smb.

 

[pcornell]

Based on frequent posts.... it seems the type of service the OP describes is more common than not.

There is a chain of dive shops in Houston that specialize in bad service. Really they don't want experienced divers or repeat customers -- they want sheep to heard into a class and buy their initial gear.

Their second priority -- swim lessons for children (nothing to do with scuba). A lady with a 5 year old wanting to enroll in the "guppy" class for $30 will get more attention than someone browsing the BC's or computers.

Third priority is selling trips -- it only ranks this high because it allows the grumpy store employees a chance to go dive for free.

I like a local dive shop and I've given them some business and dearly tried to give them more. They make it so difficult that I usually end up leaving mad and not returning for six months until I've forgotten. Then I go back and they remind me all over again.

For instance -- I took two steel 100's in for hydro not long ago. The manager of the dive shop went off on a diatribe about how I was stupid for owning steel tanks. All I wanted to do was check them in for hydro and pay the guy; no debate necessary. My son took an EFR class there from this guy -- and zero (0) teaching was done. It was all anecdotal stories about the potential changes in philosophy with CPR. No curriculum was taught, practiced, or tested. He requested and got his money back... and then a few weeks later his EFR cert showed up.

Customer service is not rocket science, but when you get some it is refreshing -- mainly because expecting the least bit of customer service leaves you open for huge disappointment.

 

[captain]

Perhaps he knows that you buy all of your gear on the Internet. That tends to make a lot of dive shop owners feel that you're only there to window shop ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Still not a valid reason to behave that way. A good businessman/salesman would try to be helpful even if he didn't have what the customer wanted. I may be window shopping today but may come back and buy something later if I am treated right.