Little Cayman Beach Vs. Pirates Point

[-hh]

I dove with LCBR several years ago and the "suggested" profiles and time limits.

I've dived with both LCBR and PP, as well as others on Little Cayman. Overall, we do have to remember that everyone has their good days and bad...no one's going to be perfect all the time.

I never saw them get on anyone for pushing time limits.

Just like how most people haven't been an eyewitness to any crime in Bonaire

Overall they were one of the best ops I have had the pleasure of diving with.

Overall, I've yet to find a truely "bad" dive operation out in the Sister Islands. But what we're really talking about is the next layer up in service quality.

YMMV, but I see it as an examination of which ones' staff tends to have more "off" days from whatever the cause, and the work environment as defined by management is going to be a factor in the happiness of the staff and their susceptibility to burnout and other things that can cause them to "take it out" on the customers. Similarly, there can be (sometimes subtle) differences in the demographics of the customers themselves that cause more "problem children" to frequent Hotel A more than Hotel B.

My personal -- very, very broad -- generalization is that some operations are in it for the long run, whereas others are after short term gains, and this gets reflected in the quality and personality attributes of their staff. Peeling the onion, it seems that in general, the smaller a place is, the more it relies on providing the services that result in faithful repeat customer business in good times and bad, and this is their business model that lets them survive economic cycles. This means that they tend to be more long-term focused. IMO, all of the classic "Dive Camps" on Little Cayman fit this model.

The flip of this is where you tend to have higher staff turnover in larger operations, and greater variation in quality from year to year.

You can also have ownership who's hung up about turning over the volume to maintain profits, so this exerts its own types of influence on the staff's behavior. One such example is to purposefully shorthand the staff: one reprocussion of this can be that a staffmember may end up having to work many days with no days off from diving, and DAN says that multiple days of repetitive diving is a risk best avoided. If I were aware that a staffmember got a DCS hit after having dived for ~20 days in a row at work, I would tend to question the employer for exposing the employee to such a risk. I might even be inclined to gently encourage fellow divers to go find some other dive operation to use instead.

Remember for every experienced diver they encounter who is qualified to set their own limits and conduct themselves appropriately they encounter two divers who are cowboys and only think they can. It must be tough to sort them out.

IMO, the "tough to sort out" is trying to give the customers the freedom that they want without incuring the legal liability if anything bad were to happen.

Insofar as a very generalized customer demographic, I've found those with less total dive experience tend to gravitate towards the destinations and resorts that advertise more, and granted, I'm being a bit crass here, but the problemmatic "cowboys" tend to gravitate towards the places that has the more popular bar scene.


-hh

 

[Caymanwind]

Hi folks.

Now that Thad has made up his mind to go to Pirates Point, I no longer feel that it is inappropriate for me to make a post here. My name is Ryan Lawson and I am the Dive Operations Manager at Reef Divers, Little Cayman. My wife worked at Pirates Point for four years and we are both in good standing with the owner Gladys. This post is not aimed at shooting down Pirates Point. Our products and target groups are so different that we do not find ourselves competing.

I admit that in the ancient past we have tended to be a little strict on our depth and time limits but since I have been managing Reef Divers we have implemented a more lenient policy, trying to find a better balance between fun and safety.

As concerns our time limits. Our limits are set as a guideline. We allow guests who would prefer slightly longer dive times to get into the water first and exit behind the last diver. This generally allows for a dive time of 60 to 65 minutes which satisfies the vast majority of our guests. Besides the obvious increased safety of shorter dives, we feel very strongly that there needs to be some sort of guideline so that the crew can determine at which point a diver is late back in order to start searching. I also know that Pirates Point allow their guests to do computer profiles and dive to the end of their air supply. On the other hand, they only do two dives a day versus our three. They are finished diving by 2:30 pm and go out at 9:30 am which allows for a much longer surface time.

I have resarched the depth limits of all the operators on Little Cayman and found that all of them enforce a strict 100 foot limit. As stated by HH, we do incorrectly quote the CIWOA limit. They do suggest 110' but we have found that people tend to drop down a few feet when coming out of swimthroughs on the wall. By limiting them to 100' we allow a margin for those accidental decents. We do not come down on people fro 100' to 110' infringments. As far as the 130' limit is concerned, it is recomended that 130' dives not be followed by repetative dives. Because we do three dives a day for six days, we feel that these dives are very unsafe and for that reason we do not allow them. As an experienced diver you are supposed to be able to make these decisions for yourself. We just feel that when and if things go wrong, our DM's are not being afforded the same choice when they have to come down and drag you up.

Now to address the post regarding the high staff turnover. The majority of the staff at Reef Divers have been there for four years or longer. At the moment there are three past staff members trying to get back in. I would say that this a sign of a very content and happy staff.

I hope this clears up some of the misconceptions out there.

To Thad. When you get to the island feel free to come around, check out the resort and let me buy you a drink.

Cheers
Ryan

 

[Sharksighter]

That's why I love this Place!

Sounds like all the operations on Little Cayman are class acts. I've been staying at larger resorts most of my dive trips and we're opting for Pirates Point for that reason mostly - it sounds tight knit. Since I made my reservation with PP I've already e-mailed back and forth with Gay and Peter several times with all of my questions being answered.

Ryan, as far as Little Cayman Beach I don't think you have to worry, your reputation is wonderful. "Some of the comments on this thread were questionably punitive to LCBR - sorry I started with a negative question." I'll be over to take you up on that drink - maybe I should buy you one! As an experienced diver I haven't been messed with by a DM since I was a newbie and certainly realize a deep first dive warrants caution on subsequent descents. I understand every operator has the cowboy problem and we know this because we all had to start as beginners. Instructors from all walks of life run into "know it alls" and "class clowns" but most don't have to deal with the prospect of death or permanent disability. Me I'll be a cowboy (maverick- should I change my nick name?) forever, but absolutely a careful one!


P.S - Can anyone recommend dive sights in LC with common shark sightings?

 

[Tim Ingersoll]

Hi folks.

Now that Thad has made up his mind to go to Pirates Point, I no longer feel that it is inappropriate for me to make a post here. My name is Ryan Lawson and I am the Dive Operations Manager at Reef Divers, Little Cayman. My wife worked at Pirates Point for four years and we are both in good standing with the owner Gladys. This post is not aimed at shooting down Pirates Point. Our products and target groups are so different that we do not find ourselves competing.

I admit that in the ancient past we have tended to be a little strict on our depth and time limits but since I have been managing Reef Divers we have implemented a more lenient policy, trying to find a better balance between fun and safety.

As concerns our time limits. Our limits are set as a guideline. We allow guests who would prefer slightly longer dive times to get into the water first and exit behind the last diver. This generally allows for a dive time of 60 to 65 minutes which satisfies the vast majority of our guests. Besides the obvious increased safety of shorter dives, we feel very strongly that there needs to be some sort of guideline so that the crew can determine at which point a diver is late back in order to start searching. I also know that Pirates Point allow their guests to do computer profiles and dive to the end of their air supply. On the other hand, they only do two dives a day versus our three. They are finished diving by 2:30 pm and go out at 9:30 am which allows for a much longer surface time.

I have resarched the depth limits of all the operators on Little Cayman and found that all of them enforce a strict 100 foot limit. As stated by HH, we do incorrectly quote the CIWOA limit. They do suggest 110' but we have found that people tend to drop down a few feet when coming out of swimthroughs on the wall. By limiting them to 100' we allow a margin for those accidental decents. We do not come down on people fro 100' to 110' infringments. As far as the 130' limit is concerned, it is recomended that 130' dives not be followed by repetative dives. Because we do three dives a day for six days, we feel that these dives are very unsafe and for that reason we do not allow them. As an experienced diver you are supposed to be able to make these decisions for yourself. We just feel that when and if things go wrong, our DM's are not being afforded the same choice when they have to come down and drag you up.

Now to address the post regarding the high staff turnover. The majority of the staff at Reef Divers have been there for four years or longer. At the moment there are three past staff members trying to get back in. I would say that this a sign of a very content and happy staff.

I hope this clears up some of the misconceptions out there.

To Thad. When you get to the island feel free to come around, check out the resort and let me buy you a drink.

Cheers
Ryan

Welcome to Scubaboard!

 

[Caymanwind]

Thad.

The crew at PP will take you there anyway but to answer your question: the most shark sightings tend to be in the area of the Bloody Bay Marine Park known as "Jackson's Bight". These are mainly Caribbean Reef Sharks with the occasional Blacktip and very rarely a Bull or a Hammerhead. Nurse sharks are fairly common on most sites.

Cheers
Ryan

 

[Caymanwind]

Tim.

Thanks -good to be here.

Ryan

 

[jaz gill]

Hey Ryan
How's it going there. Is Paul still the bartender. are the Brits David and Lisa still there.
Been there a couple of times and IMO you guys run a superb op. We never had any problems. The last time I was there was when we had a pod of 7 killer whales passing by the island. I hope my killer whale sign is still up in the bar. I'll be back to check soon.
regards
Jaz Gill

 

[Sharksighter]

Here I am at Pirate's Point and seems all resorts here request you have a maximum depth of 100ft. So maybe the Nazi thing is just for keeping people out of trouble..

 

[nipi]

We were in LCM at the w/end & it was blowing too hard from the north to shore dive Jacksons & Bloody Bay but there are still plenty of sheltered spots in Preston Bay between the Iguana & Pirates Point where we were able to shore dive.

 

[PeaceDog]

I will never, ever have one bad thing to say about Little Cayman Beach Resort. I'd go back there in a hurry, and the only reason I'm going to Bonaire instead of LC this week is because we booked at the last minute and couldn't secure reasonable airfaire. I look forward to taking my new-diver girlfriend there very soon.