Logging dives--pressure groups and computers?

[Peter Guy]

Beano -- no, I have never had an occasion to send anything to PADI HQ except money! (Well, I've sent other things too like outlines for classes and forms, but you get the picture.) When I did my PADI Tec40 IDC I had to print out dives to show that I'd done dives below "X" feet for "Y" time but I don't know if that paperwork stayed with the Instructor Trainer or went with the rest of the paperwork to HQ.

 

[beanojones]

Beano -- no, I have never had an occasion to send anything to PADI HQ except money! (Well, I've sent other things too like outlines for classes and forms, but you get the picture.) When I did my PADI Tec40 IDC I had to print out dives to show that I'd done dives below "X" feet for "Y" time but I don't know if that paperwork stayed with the Instructor Trainer or went with the rest of the paperwork to HQ.

Yeah that is exactly when I would wonder about things. As instructors, we are the gate keepers. But when, if ever, does PADI check? When they had the PADI Dive College**, this would have been a question that would have been dealt with by HQ on some level.

I know that DMs dive counts are verified by us, and I know I ask to see actual log books. But I cannot remember anyone ever saying that PADI said to them as instructors that they had to forward things to PADI. I certainly have never been asked for logs of anything by PADI, though I showed my log book to my CD, I imagine. (At least, I assume I did, because I remember my paper log books had basically become solid chunks or cardboard, and wondering how the heck are those going to verify anything?)

So your tech instructor trainer asked for a hard copy of your dives, huh? On one hand I understand that, but on the other hand, I could take your data file and turn it in, or print it out, as mine to someone else. At least with the hard copy log book, we could make some sort of case that someone 'signed' the logbook, but with the Self-Reliant Diver, who is signing those dives? I know plenty of people who have to do creative writing projects to make the dive counts for certain training levels work in terms of logs. And I know firsthand that paper logs are not slihgly reliable both because anyone can write anything, and because paper and water don't mix.

I wish PADI would for once, get ahead of the curve and sort of integrate an online Log program into DiveChek. I would gladly log in as an instructor and verify the dives of my students, and they would not have to bring paper to a dive site, nor risk losing that paper to water damage, or just loss.

** The internet has no memory of the PADI Dive College, or I would link it. I wonder if PADI wants to pretend it never existed.

 

[Instructor_Tom]

it's a good ideal to log all dive as depending the the organization you are training with you will be required to show a certain number of dives prior to entering the training. also it's a good place to track your different configuration based on wetsuit, drysuit, tank size, weight, salt water, fresh water, everything effects your trim and buoyancy so logging your dives becomes your log for finding your prefect trim setup for any dive based on historical reference.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[dmoore19]

To the OP,

I have always tried to log my pressure groups on paper while using a computer to monitor my Nitrogen tissue loading. For the most part my dives after the first dive of the day put me out of the pressure group range. I do check my NDL using my computer for an upcoming dive for planning. I gave up trying to write the pressure group in my paper dive log. I have always used my PADI edrp when attempting to do this. I have considered buying the multi level dive calculator but I keep using my computer instead. I have a backup computer and even had to use it twice. Once when I forgot to take my main computer with me on the boat and the other time when the lens fell out of Datamask. Along with the backup computer I also have a SPG I carry in my dive bag that can be added in case the AI on my main computer fails. I also have a watch that I wear with a bezel for time and a depth gauge that records the deepest depth for the last dive. I have never been asked for my paper logs but I have not taken any classes that require a certain number of dives.

 

[Steve_C]

For regular dives you put in the log whatever you want pretty much including depth and BT.

If the dive is part of a course the instructor may check that you have documented what the dive was supposed to be for. In some cases these dives may not all be with the instructor present. (mapping a dive site for DM is one example)

You may also want to document any lessons learned in or out of a course.

 

[agilis]

When I logged dives I used a system copied from the Inca, which involved a number of things, most especially intricately knotted strings. Most dive boat operations can't read these Inca logs, but they can't read logs kept in Mandarins, Urdu, Hindi, or Elvish. The advantage of the Inca braided dive log system is it's non-electric dependent and can be used to inflict physical injury should anyone get high handed and speak beyond the bounds of civility.

Dive solo. When on a holiday requiring a boat ride and rental tanks, resort to forgery. If you drown, so what. It was your time.

Seriously, all agencies should be banned from the sport. New agencies established according to participatory democratic principles should be developed, and money should be removed from the system to the extent possible. Non-profit groups should be in control. There should be only a few certifications: Basic open water, advanced open water, dive master, assistant instructor, and instructor. Only really relevant specialty cards, like cave diver or closed circuit diver should continue to exist. Participating in diving should exclude one from any life insurance coverage. The ability to sue should be eliminated by law as soon as you voluntarily begin breathing compressed air. You are on your own.

 

[The Chairman]

I haven't kept a paper trail of dives for over a dozen years. So far, I have not missed a dive due to a failed PDC. I dive a lot too. I have missed more dives to leaking o-rings on my SPG than just about anything.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

I am one of those nerds who calculates pressure groups on the basis of a multilevel dive for every dive . It keeps teaching skills honed, but also, as you do them and compare to you computer, you can develop a sense of "pixels to pressure group ratio"
DivemasterDennis

---------- Post added July 5th, 2013 at 08:39 AM ----------

I am one of those nerds who, although I dive with a computer on every dive, calculates pressure groups on the basis of a multilevel dive for every dive . It keeps teaching skills honed, but also, as you do them and compare to you computer, you can develop a sense of "pixels to pressure group ratio"
DivemasterDennis

 

[DiveNav]

.....I wish PADI would for once, get ahead of the curve and sort of integrate an online Log program into DiveChek. I would gladly log in as an instructor and verify the dives of my students, and they would not have to bring paper to a dive site, nor risk losing that paper to water damage, or just loss......

It is going to happen .... can't say more right now.

Alberto (aka eDiver)

 

[vladimir]

OP -- one bit of information -- at least in "PADI Land" (and since you referenced the RDP, I think I can assume you have a PADI cert) a paper log is not required to show how many dives you may have. I log every dive but haven't done a paper one in years. For some of my certs (instructor level) I have had to show my log and the printouts have been just fine.

In fact, to my belief, an electronic log is far better than a paper one.

Re the RDP and computer. Yup, best bet is to get a backup computer IF you are truly worried about having your computer malfunction while on vacation/dive trip. Switching back and forth between tables (whether written tables or electronic like the eRDPml) and a dive computer just doesn't work very well.

Yes. I suppose you could fake an electronic dive log by dangling your computer over the side of the boat on a line (or with a pressure pot?), but it would be a lot easier to fake a paper log. So, for the OP's purpose an electronic log would be better. And my electronic log has a lot more data than any paper log I kept—and no runny ink.

I am one of those nerds who calculates pressure groups on the basis of a multilevel dive for every dive . It keeps teaching skills honed, but also, as you do them and compare to you computer, you can develop a sense of "pixels to pressure group ratio"
DivemasterDennis

---------- Post added July 5th, 2013 at 08:39 AM ----------

I am one of those nerds who, although I dive with a computer on every dive, calculates pressure groups on the basis of a multilevel dive for every dive . It keeps teaching skills honed, but also, as you do them and compare to you computer, you can develop a sense of "pixels to pressure group ratio"
DivemasterDennis

Why only two versions of this post? We'd like to see the rough draft and the first couple of revisions as well.