Looking for the downside in regs

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Aric M L

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Location
Oshkosh, WI
I've been reading these forums for a while looking for advice on purchasing my first regulator. The opinions I've found so far seem to point towards that; there are few bad manufacturers of scuba gear, fit is #1, buy balanced, and everything else seems to be preference. Also I've seen a lot of posts saying "I love my Zeagle" or "My AL is great"

What I want to know is what should a new consumer look to avoid in a regulator, and what makes a $600 regulator better than a $250 reg? Of course brand plugs are still always appreciated though.
 
basically you want a regulator that will breathe well at depth and not just at the surface, that will breathe dry (no water leaking into your mouth), that is reliable
(i.e. won't break on your every other month), that you can afford, and that you can
get serviced easily (i.e. a shop in your vecinity provides maintenance and warranty work if needed).

combine that with the "major" players (Apeks, Zeagle, Scubapro, Atomic, and Poseidon), and you can't go wrong.

avoid the over-priced "titanium" regs. they are a gimmick and you're getting nothing extra of of value.
 
Andy hit the major points. If you are diving in cold water, you want a reg that is environmentally sealed to prevent cold water free flows.
 
If you're going to dive deep (more than 60' or 80') you want a very high performance first stage that can supply all the air you and your buddy could possibly want to breathe.

If you're diving in cold water (less than 45 or 50 degrees F), you want a regulator that's designed specifically to not freeze or freeflow in cold water.

You absolutely want a regulator that you can get serviced locally at a shop that you like, that sells and services a lot of the the brand that you're thinking of.

Terry

Aric M L:
I've been reading these forums for a while looking for advice on purchasing my first regulator. The opinions I've found so far seem to point towards that; there are few bad manufacturers of scuba gear, fit is #1, buy balanced, and everything else seems to be preference. Also I've seen a lot of posts saying "I love my Zeagle" or "My AL is great"

What I want to know is what should a new consumer look to avoid in a regulator, and what makes a $600 regulator better than a $250 reg? Of course brand plugs are still always appreciated though.
 
OK, here's one try. I am not the reg geek, but I can try to give you a non-comprehensive list of some things that differentiate an expensive reg from a less expensive reg. (1) High performance. This is not just some marketing lingo. "High performance" regs will deliver air more consistently at depth, particularly when cylinder pressure is low. (2) Breathing effort. Really good regs have a very low breathing effort. This is measurable. Scuba Diving Magazine's ScubaLab used to run tests. I stopped reading the mag after Rodale's sold it, so I don't know what they've done lately. I know that my Scuba Pro MK25/S600 breathes a lot easier than my MK20/D400, which is also an excellent hig-performance reg. (3) Adjustments. Some regs let the diver adjust breathing effort or cracking pressure. Adjusting for minimum breathing effort can make the reg more likely to free flow, so it might be adjusted in some situations. I have to confess, even though my reg is adjustable, I don't use the adjustments that much and don't fully understand the adjustments. I got it for size, light weight, and low breathing effort and the adjustments came along with it. (4) Size and weight. Some are bigger, some are smaller. Some are lighter, some are heavier. A lighter second stage can reduce jaw fatigue. I happen to like a more compact second stage, but it is not critical. (5) Resistance to Cold. If you dive cold water (like we do in the Great Lakes), you want to make sure your reg will resist freezing up in cold conditions. Some aren't designed for it at all, some are good in all but the coldest water, and some are designed to work for ice diving. (6) Quality and service. Some regs and manufacturers are very well-known for high quality, good warranties, and good customer service. Scuba Pro and Aqualung have been around forever and are always considered top quality. They're usually more expensive too. I hear lots of good things about Atomic regs (company run by former Scuba Pro engineers), and Zeagle. Lots of people like Mares, but I am not sure they have quite the same reputation for regs (BIG DISCLAIMER - I could be wrong on the Mares rep, this is mostly lack of familiarity on my part). (7) Availability of Parts and Service. One of the good things about Scuba Pro and Aqualung is you can usually get parts and service even if it breaks while you are on vacation. They are everywhere. You also want to get a brand that you can easily get serviced for the regular maintenance. Personally, I think this means buying it at a local dive shop you trust that has a good technician. Others may disagree, which is, of course, their right. (8) Retailer. If you have a good relationship with a local retailer, you may want to buy what they sell. They won't sell everything, but you should have some choice. There is enough good stuff out there that you should be able to buy something good from your local dive shop if you are inclined to buy there. (9) Special-purpose stuff. Some regs are particularly good for particular uses. For example, some first stages are environmentally sealed. This means no water enters the first stage, which makes them good for diving in contaminated or very cold water. Contaminated water shouldn't be an issue unless you are diving for golf balls, a commercial diver of some sort, or a public safety diver. For the rest of us, contaminated water usually means peeing in your wetsuit.

Well, that turned out to be more than I thought, but it is not the whole story by a long shot. I expect somebody else will come along to correct any mistakes and plug any holes. Hope this is helpful.
 
That was incredibly helpful actually. Thank you very much. I do plan on doing cold water diving as I live in WI and that then begs the question, how do you tell if a reg will tolerate cold water? I'm not going to go ice diving by any stretch but if you have any suggestions for a more basic unit that would work to maybe 40 degrees that would be quite useful. As it is, the information you've given has really helped me understand why I might want to save a few pennies for a nicer reg. Thanks again.
 
What you want is a sealed diaphragm... Apeks, Aqualung, Dive Rite and I'm sure Zeagle makes them (just to name a few). The way you can tell it's sealed is you'll probably see a little rubber membrane on the 1st stage. Pistons and unsealed diaphragms are going to have a hole in them to allow water in.
 
Aric M L:
That was incredibly helpful actually. Thank you very much. I do plan on doing cold water diving as I live in WI and that then begs the question, how do you tell if a reg will tolerate cold water? I'm not going to go ice diving by any stretch but if you have any suggestions for a more basic unit that would work to maybe 40 degrees that would be quite useful. As it is, the information you've given has really helped me understand why I might want to save a few pennies for a nicer reg. Thanks again.
I have used a Scuba Pro MK25/S600 in waters down to 42F with no freezing, but I have heard of them free flowing in cold water. It comes with a hose protector between the hose and the second stage. If you remove that, it seems to help equalize temperature with the water temp and prevent the free flows. I will be diving the Straits of Mackinac this weekend, so I will be doing further evaluation in cold water.

Scuba Pro's environmentally sealed first stage is the MK17. You might want to look at the MK17/S555. Here's a link to the description on the SP web page: http://www.scubapro.com/prod/erog/erogatori/mk17_S555/mk17_S555.htm.

Poseidon regs and the Mares Abyss are often recommended for cold water.
 
Aric M L:
That was incredibly helpful actually. Thank you very much. I do plan on doing cold water diving as I live in WI and that then begs the question, how do you tell if a reg will tolerate cold water? I'm not going to go ice diving by any stretch but if you have any suggestions for a more basic unit that would work to maybe 40 degrees that would be quite useful. As it is, the information you've given has really helped me understand why I might want to save a few pennies for a nicer reg. Thanks again.
The Atomic M1 (M2 by now?) is an excellent cold-water reg. The first stage is completely environmentally sealed and has never freeeflowed regardless of what I've done with it, even in 35 degree water.

The Atomix Z1 (Z2?) with the optional environmental seal kit has been equally flawless, and should be less expensive.

Whatever you get should have a specific mechanism for preventing freezeup, not just "be good in cold water". Some pack the first stage with non-freezing lubricant (Atomic), some leak a tiny bit of air out of the first stage to keep it dry, some have other methods, however if you're going to be diving in cold water, you do not want a reg that's OK until you happen to start breathing hard or need to share air, since that can turn a minor problem into a major one very quickly.

A lot of regs are OK until they have to start delivering a lot of air, then freeze up and freeflow, which is exactly what you don't want. If you're doing cold water, you (and your buddy, if you're sharing air) want to be able to breath all you want without worrying about the regulator.

Terry
 
Since you have already gotten some really good pointers about first stages and cold water I will mention some points to consider with regard to the second stage and cold water. Apeks second stages (and possibly some other brands as well) have metal parts on the air barrel. Specifically I am talking about the adjustment knob. An advantage of this part being metal is that it will help to conduct warm water temperatures from the surrounding water into the innards of the second stage where the reg will freeze. This is arguably an advantage in performance.

The other major factor to consider when you purchase regulators is the cost of maintenance. Some but not all regulator manufacturers in the United States offer free parts for life programs. These programs usually require you to have the regulator serviced every year, you pay the labor charges, but the routine parts are free. If you miss a year on almost all of the programs the free parts stop and can never be resumed. ScubaPro does allow you under certain circumstances to get back in to the free parts, but you will need to pay for the first set of parts after skipping a service interval.

If you are the type that services your own regs then the free parts programs will make no difference. If you plan on only having your reg serviced every second or third year, again the free parts programs will not matter. If you get your regulator serviced every year these programs can have a big impact on the price you pay for that service.

Some shops offer discounted labor on regulators they originally sold to you the customer, these discounts coupled with the free parts may make a slightly higher retail price at one particular shop a better deal when you look five years down the road.

Some companies allow internet sales and others do not. The ones that do not will not give you the free parts deal, this might make a difference to you, it might not.

My advice is to stick with a major brand, purchase it at a local shop, factor in the price of service for five years and choose the most appropriate regulator for your needs and buget. You will almost certainly want a "cold" water regulator in your area and get a mid line to high end regulator, avoid the economy end of the spectrum.

Have fun,

Mark Vlahos
 

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