Mares has full RGBM

[Charlie99]

In the US the M1, MC1, Nemo, and Dacor Darwin Air (also the Mares Airlab of which there are some in the US)all have the Weinke-Mares.

The Weinke-Mares algorithm is just a small tweak on the Suunto RGBM, which is also neo-Haldanian at the core.

What's the the status of the full-up or true RGBM computer Mares is developing? I haven't heard of any planned release date yet.

 

[mart1]

Scott and all,

In the US the M1, MC1, Nemo, and Dacor Darwin Air (also the Mares Airlab of which there are some in the US)all have the Weinke-Mares. The Dacor Darwin and Darwin console do not. The M1 and MC1 in Europe also come in a non RGBM version that the US no longer brings in but are still in production, so look for the RGBM logo when buying a unit if the RGBM is what you want.

Good luck at Zeagle with your new computer Scott.

Don't buy Mares if RGBM is what you want, and keep in mind Mares have had the highest number of recalls on their computer.
Suunto have had a recreational RGBM version for years.

 

[scubatoys]

Scott and all,

In the US the M1, MC1, Nemo, and Dacor Darwin Air (also the Mares Airlab of which there are some in the US)all have the Weinke-Mares. The Dacor Darwin and Darwin console do not. The M1 and MC1 in Europe also come in a non RGBM version that the US no longer brings in but are still in production, so look for the RGBM logo when buying a unit if the RGBM is what you want.

Good luck at Zeagle with your new computer Scott.

Yes, we just got in 100 of the RGBM Mares Airlab computers with Quick Disconnect - and according to everything I've seen, heard and can read up on... It's RGBM.

 

[Charlie99]

Yes, we just got in 100 of the RGBM Mares Airlab computers with Quick Disconnect - and according to everything I've seen, heard and can read up on... It's RGBM.

Your link say that the Airlab uses "the brand new Mares-Wienke RGBM Algorithm" As I noted above, this is really a dissolved gas (neo-Haldanian) algorithm with tweaks to emulate RGBM. Similar to the "Suunto-RGBM" algorithm. Neither is a true RGBM model in that they don't even attempt to estimate any free phase (bubble) parameters.

Both the Suuntos and the Mare-Wienke algorithm computers look like good computers, but neither truly implement RGBM.

 

[mart1]

Both the Suuntos and the Mare-Wienke algorithm computers look like good computers, but neither truly implement RGBM.

As far as I know the Explorer is still the only computer with a full RGBM algoritm(if you choose to set it this way).
VR3 is supposed to come with a bubble algoritm in the near future, this will be a VPM.

mart

 

[padiscubapro]

Yes, we are working on a full-up RGBM computer.

Release date - unknown - hopefully some time in 2005. These things take a long time, I am finding out...

It is a unique computer.

That is really all I can say at this point.

Thanks for the links!

Scott

I wish you guys luck.. As anyone who has seen Bruce's example source code ( I have had the chance to view it) know its unusable and riddled with bugs.. A sharp scientist he is, a programmer he is not.. I have seen cleaner coding by a first year comp-sci student..

About the only good thing I can say about it is that his use of approximations does make the program less computationally intensive.. I know it took gene (hydrospace) about 1.5 years to rewrite the code suitable for use in a DC, and a took Kees at Gap considerable time to make it usable as a planning tool..

You can definately see the VPM roots in it..

 

[Charlie99]

I wish you guys luck.. As anyone who has seen Bruce's example source code ( I have had the chance to view it) know its unusable and riddled with bugs.. A sharp scientist he is, a programmer he is not.. I have seen cleaner coding by a first year comp-sci student..
..

Are you saying his code is as clear as his books?

Is VPM less computationally intensive than RGBM?

If I was choosing between two dual phase computers, I'd probably choose VPM because it is a more open algorithm that seems to have had more peer review. On a practical basis, I just keep diving my old ancient Haldanian hockey puck while choosing to dive profiles that are bubble friendly.

 

[padiscubapro]

Are you saying his code is as clear as his books?

Is VPM less computationally intensive than RGBM?

If I was choosing between two dual phase computers, I'd probably choose VPM because it is a more open algorithm that seems to have had more peer review. On a practical basis, I just keep diving my old ancient Haldanian hockey puck while choosing to dive profiles that are bubble friendly.

RGBM does alot more than VPM, but Bruce set specific limits and did approximations for certain equations that considerably reduces the overhead... This is why RGBM has a limit of 180m, the solutions he is using are invalid beyond this point..

If you look at the VPM source code you can see the roots of RGBM clearly, but for example in VPM there is a section of code that tries to solve for the radius roots, in RGBM an approximation is used that reduces overhead..

I can tell you that at least when it comes to CCR calculations the posted vpm/vpm-b code definately has a few bugs (I don't think vplanner has fixed them)..I do know both the explorer and Gap software have these bugs corrected (they are present in the original RGBM code as well)

VPM as implemented by V-planner seems as time goes on to be generating profiles less and less towardsbubble dynamics and more towards old haldeanean end of dives...

I can get similiar results as the current VPM by simply extending a haldeanean model with a few extra very fast tissue groups with limits similiar to that of the slow tissues.. This is partially the way the cochran computers control bubble growth and invoke deep stops (on current models)

 

[rossh]

VPM as implemented by V-planner seems as time goes on to be generating profiles less and less towardsbubble dynamics and more towards old haldeanean end of dives...

V-Planner presents the 3 varieties of the VPM (the original VPM, VPM-B and now for those doing extreme dives who prefer an overlapped type plan VPM-B/E). The diver can choose which ever that like. All are stable and have been consistent through all program version releases.

As Joe points out, these models when first released need some extra attention to account for all the real world problems. V-Planner has been developed with considerable diver feedback over several years now.

Regards
--
Ross Hemingway
www.v-planner.com

 

[Charlie99]

I can get similiar results as the current VPM by simply extending a haldeanean model with a few extra very fast tissue groups with limits similiar to that of the slow tissues..

Is the lower "gradient factor" hack doing essentially this?