My first experience with BP/Wing... and a question

[PerroneFord]

Nope. For me the point of the weight belt is always to offset positive buoyancy. I'm not looking to ditch it. My rig is balanced when diving wet and I can swim up that weight. The last thing I want (wet or dry) is to lose a weight belt. Running it under my crotch strap increases the chances of not losing it should it come open (it's no guarantee of course).

Fair enough. But I do want to ask, if you don't plan on ditching it, why wear the weight on a belt? Why not integrate it into the rig? Or do you just prefer to keep it on your person?

-P

 

[Rainer]

A few reasons. First, weight belts are cheap (certainly cheaper than options to add the weight to the rig). Second, I only dive a wetsuit (for now) in warm water, which means I need at most 4# (3mm + 4mm hooded vest), and I don't mind a 4# belt. When diving dry, it's just 7# in salt water, none in fresh. The belt just isn't a problem and it's cheap. In all these cases, loses the belt would be annoying, but not life threatening. We could work something out in the team to keep in very manageable. Three, I prefer the small amount of weight on my person as opposed to the rig (means I can jump back into the water and snorkel, for which I prefer a few pounds).

I might reconsider if I were rocking a 7mm suit and needed a lot more weight (i.e. I might move some to the rig; I'd still wear the belt under the crotch strap).

 

[swinchen]

A 7mil farmer john with hood and gloves in Florida? There's one problem. What's the water temp?

If, when you get the neoprene situation straightened out, you still need 20lbs or more, I would suggest switching to a steel tank first. That should remove another 6-9 lbs, then you might have a manageable 6lbs in each of two pockets. You can get the fancy dive-rite quick release weight pockets, or I'm sure other companies make them, or just get the XSscuba cam band pockets. I think they hold 5 lbs each, you might be able to get 6 in one. They have a simple velcro closure. If you're ultra set on "quick release" weights, and you don't want to get the actual weight pockets, there are some people that just install the XS scuba pocket upside down, so that if you pull the velcro flap open, the weights fall out. I would not do that, but then again I'm not too worried about ditchable weight. Half the time mine are empty anyhow.

In theory, you're right about keeping some weight on a belt if you have a buoyant wetsuit, in case you need to remove the rig at depth. But, at the surface, which is really the only place you would ever dump weights, it doesn't matter. If you're entangled at depth to the point where you need to remove your rig, and there's nobody there to help get you free, you got bigger problems than whether or not you're wearing a weight belt.

Good points, thanks.

I have only dove in Florida (to get my OW C-card) and now I am "taking" the OW class again (in Maine) with friends because it is only 200 bucks and I get like 8 hours of pool time and 4 open water dives.... I decided to do this while I was buying equipment so I could get comfortable with it.

I just ordered my Atom 2.0 and XS Scuba Weight Pouches from LP. I will see how I like those next week

Nope. For me the point of the weight belt is always to offset positive buoyancy. I'm not looking to ditch it. My rig is balanced when diving wet and I can swim up that weight. The last thing I want (wet or dry) is to lose a weight belt. Running it under my crotch strap increases the chances of not losing it should it come open (it's no guarantee of course).

See, that makes sense too. There really two ways of looking at.... You don't want to lose your weights, but also in the case of a really bad emergency it would be nice to be able to ditch those so someone can scoop you out of the water and call DAN.

In my mind what makes sense is for me (without my rig) to be + buoyant enough to counteract the weight of the rig w/ ditch-able weights. That way if I ditch my pockets I slowly rise to the surface, unlike dropping my weight belt where I would probably shoot right out of the water. Also having some weight on me (while not exactly neutrally buoyant) would allow me to take off my right a little easier in the case of an emergency.

I think that makes sense... I hope it does.

 

[Walter]

Pull dumps are terrible, and can be problematic.............. Use the butt dump to release air.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the butt dump a pull dump?

 

[Rick Inman]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the butt dump a pull dump?

I think he's reefing to those convoluted ones that are 3 feet of string running around your suit to the shoulder or someplace, or those devices-designed-to-fail where you actually yank on your BC hose. Good idea...

 

[swinchen]

Oh, sorry, I might have gotten my terminology wrong.... by pull-dump I meant some the power inflater have a cable inside them that run back to the BC that open a valve over your left shoulder. It makes releasing air much much easier. I am sure it has a downside, like everything in diving, but I found it more intuitive.

 

[PerroneFord]

Oh, sorry, I might have gotten my terminology wrong.... by pull-dump I meant some the power inflater have a cable inside them that run back to the BC that open a valve over your left shoulder. It makes releasing air much much easier. I am sure it has a downside, like everything in diving, but I found it more intuitive.

Yea, the downside is that these are known to pull the hose right off the back of the BC. I've seen it happen, and have pictures of it happening. If one is actually in a good horizontal swimming position, the pull dump is trying to release air from behind the shoulder. Which is not the highest position. Meaning that it is not the best place to try and release air from.

So the pull dump is less efficient, and adds a dangerous failure point. They are also notorious for leaking as small grits of sand get caught in them and they stick slightly open. I've had to do a couple of underwater repairs of those for buddies as well. I avoid these things like the plague.

 

[swinchen]

Yea, the downside is that these are known to pull the hose right off the back of the BC. I've seen it happen, and have pictures of it happening. If one is actually in a good horizontal swimming position, the pull dump is trying to release air from behind the shoulder. Which is not the highest position. Meaning that it is not the best place to try and release air from.

So the pull dump is less efficient, and adds a dangerous failure point. They are also notorious for leaking as small grits of sand get caught in them and they stick slightly open. I've had to do a couple of underwater repairs of those for buddies as well. I avoid these things like the plague.

That is all the convincing I need I can get used to it, like anything else I may learn to love it.

Should I avoid using my butt-pull, or whatever you call it? the ball on the string on the bottom left...

 

[PerroneFord]

The butt dump is the preferred method among some of us divers because if you are actually horizontal in the water, it's the highest point, and the most efficient place to release air from. If you blow your ascent for some reason and are trying to fin down, it's also going to be the highest point. If you have to ascend head first, then just push the button on the end of your inflator. Problem solved.

 

[BarryNL]

So let me ask this... what do you guys recommend for integrating weights into the harness? (brand, model, etc) I really want ditch-able weights that have a clasp, instead of (or in addition to) Velcro. I really don't think the weight belt is for me though. I shouldn't have a need for much more than 30lbs total of weight.

Yeah, weight belts are a pain with BP/W setups. I've found three solutions which work:

1) The weight pouches which fit in the waistband. These are basically the BP/W equivalent of integrated weight and work pretty well. I have a few picky DIR issues with them, but if you're not DIR then these are an option.

2) P-weights - lead blocks which fit in the groove in your backplate. (Do not confuse with P-valves )

3) Tank weights - mount directly onto the tank. For doubles, obviously V-weights instead.

For 30 lbs (do you really need that much??) you could probably do a combination. Maybe 10 lbs P-weight, 10 lbs of tank weight and 10 lbs of ditchable weight in pouches.