My urge to own a steel tank ...

[lowviz]

...//... Or is the warranty even worth it?

No, but owning your own tanks is.

-get at least one big (used) steel HP single and a transfill whip, don't need nitrox to top off ponies...

 

[DA Aquamaster]

DA Aquamaster: If I am understanding your post correctly, a tanks ownership means spending 50 USD on O2 cleaning if it has been used for Nitrox? Thus two tanks dedicated to nitrox usage would mean 100 USD a year. I mean if the tanks are dedicated air tanks then they will only require visuals and a hydroinspection every five years? Just wanted to add the correct math to see if it would make my life easier.

I posted that specifically as you live in the Northern VA area. There are a couple exceptions of shops that don't play ball, but generally speaking the dive shop owners/managers in the area get together over dinner on a regular basis and set common policies. One of the results has been the long standing nitrox fill practice where shops "require" a tank to be O2 cleaned before they will fill it with even 32% nitrox.

The rationale is that it allows any NOVA shop to fill any tank that has been VIP'd cleaned and stickered for Nitrox use by any other participating NOVA shop, without regard to whether it is done by partial pressure, continuous flow or membrane system. If the shop that VIP'd your tank is not on board with the gas cartel policies, the other shops won't fill it - without O2 cleaning it and charging you for it.

There is a degree of slightly flawed logic to that, but in the end, it also means that such a policy then allows every shop in the NOVA area to charge customers annually for O2 cleaning of tanks used only for nitrox at percentages under 32%, when the normal standard is not to require tank cleaning for mixtures under 40%. And since, theoretically, every shop adheres to that requirement, the diver has no choice other than to comply if they want a nitrox fill.

It's kind of like our very own home grown scuba mafia, and in my opinon amounts to price fixing and other unfair business practices that are probably illegal.

Since I do repair work and O2 cleaning for a couple of those shops, as well as O2 cleaning, I get around the cost issue by doing it myself, but I feel for the customers of those shops who really hold to that standard and require O2 cleaning for recreational nitrox mixes.

Some of those shops do cut their customers a deal on subsequent O2 cleaning, and will charge $25 rather than $50 for the second and subsequent years, so if you go the ownership route, see if you can negotiate the cost of the initial nitrox/O2 cleaning into the purchace price, and then ensure that you can get subsequent cleanings at half the regular rate. If they won't do that, try another shop, but be advised that shops make comparatively little off of steel tank sales and make almost nothing off AL tank sales, once shipping and time on the shelf are factored in. Most of the profit will be in the sale of the valve, the initial inspection and cleaning and the initial fill.

 

[sambolino44]

I'm glad I bought steel tanks. I wish I had more, and larger, steel tanks. I can't ever make it back to the shop before they close, and being able to just go any time is also nice.

Another thing: my weight and trim are the same every time. I know just how high to strap the BP on for the best trim, and I never have to futz with my weights, because it's always the same.

If my local shop had nitrox, I'd dive it a lot more often. As it is, I just rent when I want nitrox, which is pretty inconvenient, but we only get it (in 130 cu ft steel tanks from the shop in the next town over) when we plan a deeper dive.

 

[Jose Cernuda]

I have several steel tanks and love them! Steel tanks allow you take take weight off your belt (in my case I don't need any at all when diving steel). If you opt for a larger tank you can have more gas available for the dive (what size is best will of course be determined by your breathing rate and the type of diving you plan on doing). They also tend to hold more gas in a more compact size. I say go for it, it's totally worth it.

 

[ajduplessis]

Scratch until the urge dissipates. If you don’t you are likely to end up with at least 6 cylinders

 

[BluewaterSail]

I was also thinking about buying a couple of steel tanks, in order to have a bit more gas available than the 12 liter aluminum tanks all of the shops here rent.

The theory I was going on was that they could fill to 300 bar rather than 200 bar. I was suprised this past weekend when I saw some steel tanks for rent in a shop, that they said that the valves were only rated for 200 bar.

So it seems that the higher capacity isn't a standard assumption?
How does one specify the valves if one is buying?

 

[Colliam7]

I posted that specifically as you live in the Northern VA area. There are a couple exceptions of shops that don't play ball, but generally speaking the dive shop owners/managers in the area get together over dinner on a regular basis and set common policies. One of the results has been the long standing nitrox fill practice where shops "require" a tank to be O2 cleaned before they will fill it with even 32% nitrox. . . . And since, theoretically, every shop adheres to that requirement, the diver has no choice other than to comply if they want a nitrox fill. It's kind of like our very own home grown scuba mafia, and in my opinon amounts to price fixing and other unfair business practices that are probably illegal.

Thanks for posting this! It is amazing that this goes on, but very helpful for the OP and others to know. I guess the logical follow up question is, if there are some shops that 'don't play ball', are they otherwise reputable and competent operations? IOW, are there at least a few legitimate options for divers, like the OP, who may choose to not support the scuba mafia?

Wayne Kinard needs to open an Amigos branch operation in NOVA.

To the OP: were I in your situation, and planned to dive outside my local area for the most part (you mentioned MD, NC and FL among other locales), I would simply plan to have my tanks filled (if I wanted to use nitrox) at my destination, or use air.

 

[Brewone0to]

Scratch until the urge dissipates. If you don’t you are likely to end up with at least 6 cylinders

Crap! Don't tell my wife that 6 tanks is an acceptable amount of tanks.
Wouldn't want to derail her training now would you?

 

[fjpatrum]

I posted that specifically as you live in the Northern VA area. There are a couple exceptions of shops that don't play ball, but generally speaking the dive shop owners/managers in the area get together over dinner on a regular basis and set common policies. One of the results has been the long standing nitrox fill practice where shops "require" a tank to be O2 cleaned before they will fill it with even 32% nitrox.

The rationale is that it allows any NOVA shop to fill any tank that has been VIP'd cleaned and stickered for Nitrox use by any other participating NOVA shop, without regard to whether it is done by partial pressure, continuous flow or membrane system. If the shop that VIP'd your tank is not on board with the gas cartel policies, the other shops won't fill it - without O2 cleaning it and charging you for it.

There is a degree of slightly flawed logic to that, but in the end, it also means that such a policy then allows every shop in the NOVA area to charge customers annually for O2 cleaning of tanks used only for nitrox at percentages under 32%, when the normal standard is not to require tank cleaning for mixtures under 40%. And since, theoretically, every shop adheres to that requirement, the diver has no choice other than to comply if they want a nitrox fill.

It's kind of like our very own home grown scuba mafia, and in my opinon amounts to price fixing and other unfair business practices that are probably illegal.

Since I do repair work and O2 cleaning for a couple of those shops, as well as O2 cleaning, I get around the cost issue by doing it myself, but I feel for the customers of those shops who really hold to that standard and require O2 cleaning for recreational nitrox mixes.

Some of those shops do cut their customers a deal on subsequent O2 cleaning, and will charge $25 rather than $50 for the second and subsequent years, so if you go the ownership route, see if you can negotiate the cost of the initial nitrox/O2 cleaning into the purchace price, and then ensure that you can get subsequent cleanings at half the regular rate. If they won't do that, try another shop, but be advised that shops make comparatively little off of steel tank sales and make almost nothing off AL tank sales, once shipping and time on the shelf are factored in. Most of the profit will be in the sale of the valve, the initial inspection and cleaning and the initial fill.

I just dropped off one of my AL80s at my local NoVA shop to get O2 cleaned and a nitrox fill. While there one of the guys mentioned it's going to come in around $100 for the viz, O2 cleaning, and fill and mentioned I could just buy a new tank for $200.

I suspect I'll be doing my own viz in the near future so it will be mute at that point anyway. It's not like Viton O-rings and christolube or tribolube cost that much more than the "non-O2 safe" alternatives.

 

[lowviz]

...//... I was suprised this past weekend when I saw some steel tanks for rent in a shop, that they said that the valves were only rated for 200 bar....//...

-I'll try to keep this short.

We are talking about DIN connectors. Valves come in 200 BAR (~3000psi) and 300 BAR ratings. The 300 BAR valve will have more threads and be longer than the 200 BAR valve. The big problem with this is that you can't just screw in a yoke converter fitting and get a fill from any of the common yoke whips. The 300 BAR is too big to fit inside the yoke adapter.

Which is why more than a few people use 200 BAR valves or manifolds on a HP tank(s).

Note that if you have a 200 BAR fitting on your primary reg (uncommon), you will not be able to make a seal to any cylinder using a 300 BAR valve, won't bottom out, no seal.