My Venture into GUE - Another view

[Jax]

One point I'd like to make is that even though I was not as stressed as my classmates, there certainly was some performance anxiety. I mentioned the back-kick above.

Another incident was clipping off my primary. Dive-aholic put me through at least a hundred drills clipping off my primary, and I practiced extensively both before and after Dive-aholic's sidemount class . . . but it took me a couple of dozen (not exaggerating) tries to clip off in the lake . . . just couldn't get the $%^&*ing thing to clip. Yet I had done so successfully through the rest of the week. FWIW . . . .

 

[Cave Diver]

Interesting and very detailed report...

Although I had plenty of practice in my drysuit, I did NOT have plenty of practice in my drysuit in the single configuration in which I dived.

What contribution do you feel the change in configuration made to your floaty feet problem? What solutions (if any) have you looked at for it?

The GUE system is a very structured system with a high bar of performance and uniformity; it gives great confidence and comfort to those that enjoy working within those parameters. I went into this class with a “sir-yes-sir” Basic Training attitude.

I would have imagined that to mesh well with your military background.

.....The worksheets themselves drove some of us engineering-types nuts – please note this is an individual response and YMMV. First, the sheets did not follow mathematical standards for rounding, and seemed to round randomly for “conservatism”.

What type of equations were random? Gas planning? Deco?

This is important. Prospective students should come in with solid skills, and expect class to tweak and fine-tune them.

Was this communicated to you, or just your impression?

Bob dislikes certain gear types, like the Fusion drysuit (too hard to see / feel the bubble) and DSS single BP/W (inherently unstable).

This could have been a contributor to the cause of the floaty feet you mentioned previously.

LESSON LEARNED: Do not attempt this class if you do not have a significant number of dives (est 20 or more) in the configuration in which you will take the class! You cannot solve these problems and meet the class standards in only five days. Of the three of us that did not pass, one had less than 100 dives, and the other two had five or less dives in their drysuit in our class gear configuration.

Was your goal to pass the class or to gain skills to continue to improve your diving?

When the seas are rougher, I get really seasick. I did one dive and thumbed the other two – I simply wasn’t capable of being a good teammate in the water, and was not safe for me or anyone.

That sucks, but thumbing the dive was the right choice and is always an option.

Once she replaced her mask and we were swimming to reposition on the line, I pointed out two sea turtles. Bob spun his camera around and caught the lead turtle . . . strangely, neither one saw the second turtle.

Double vision?

.....What follows is my opinion and observations only, and generated an epiphany for me. On our boat were several GUE fundies graduates. In spite of my sickness, I was able to listen and observe intermittently their execution of the GUE standards and procedures. First, there was an incredible level of intensity. The ?stress? ?tension? was so thick you could feel it. They executed the pre-dive checklist (G.U.E.E.D.G.E). I was surprised to see everyone in hoods to dive in 70F water, but it was part of the uniform. They broke into 3-person teams and splashed.

.....Once out of the water, there were no smiles. Some withdrew into themselves, disappointed in their ‘performance’. Others seemed hypercritical of each other, “You didn’t do x . . .” or “You should’ve done y.” The demeanor was of a very unhappy group of people. Really? You’re in South Florida, on a long-weekend vacation, diving beautiful 70F water that is fairly clear, and you come out dejected and unhappy?

Note – it was later explained that the group was going through rapid phases of the “forming-storming-norming-performing” of team-building, and that they got over it rapidly and dived as a solid team afterward. I was also told that it takes a few months to a year for new graduates to not be so intense. Okay, I’ll buy that; I understand team building. But, Really? You’re in South Florida, on a long-weekend vacation, diving beautiful 70F water that is fairly clear, and you come out dejected and unhappy? Is it all worth it?

My classmates were equally dejected and unhappy. At that point I decided, I do not want to dive like this.

I'm a bit surprised by your final analysis. Given your military background I would have figured it would be a given that you'd appreciate solid planning, preparation and performance during the training phases in a team environment to make the execution in real world conditions seamless. A lot of people equate GUE to a militaristic organization, but I've never seen it to be that extreme. You seem to feel that it's more extreme.

Regardless of the outcome, I'm sure it was quite the learning experience for everyone. Congratulations on the effort!

 

[Ramsy]

Jax,

Thanks for the write up. A lot of what you wrote brought up similar memories for me when I took my fundies class. Therefore, I very much appreciate you taking the time to share your experience.

On a positive note, in my opinion, simply passing fundies will not automatically make you a better diver or even allow you to enjoy diving more. It is not like a switch is turned on and you automatically are a better diver. Rather, fundies provides you the basic skills to allow an individual to become a better diver, and thus, enjoy diving more. However, the skills need to be practiced post class in various different diving conditions. Then one day, I guarantee it, when you are doing your deco stops without holding on to a line, you will have one of those "ah-ha" moments when you realize all of that training and practice has finally come together.

In a lot of ways, it is no different then when a person first gets their driver's license. The state has found you to possess the basic skills to operate a motor vehicle. When you hit the road for the first time, there still will be anxiety and more learning to be done. However, over time, you refine those skills and become a better driver. Diving is no different, IMHO.

So, keep at it and use and practice the skills you learned from your fundies class in your future dives.

If you are ever out in San Diego, let me know. I would be happy to dive with you.

 

[gypsyjim]

Thanks for sharing. My adventure at Fundies was a very humbling experience.

I really blew day #1, but things did get better after that. I gained a lot in just a few days, but having had such friends as Sam, Donna, Henrik, Karen, and other DNY'ers to practice with, both before (and after) helped me be somewhat better prepared than I would have been without all of their kind advice and help!!!

Day #5 I did not do the eval. dive at all, because it was obvious that my physical limitations would negatively effect the chances for my team being able to complete their dives and skills.

Though I did not earn a "pass", that was never really the reason I took the Fundies class with Bob to begin with. I came away with skill sets that I have found greatly improved my enjoyment of diving. I also came away with an even greater understanding of: team building, safety, dive planning.

Pass, or no, training with Bob and the GUE system added so much to my diving!!!

At the end of this last week on Coz I had the really great experience of having a diver with thousands of more dives than myself pull me aside and compliment my skills at the end of the week. This is the second time since I took training with Bob that something like this has happened to me, and I realize that it was only because of that frustrating training that I have grown as much as a diver as I have this last year or so.

I still have a very long ways to go, but as bad as I did in that Fundies class, I still found it a lot of fun learning from Bob and his close friend Trace. Just to keep adding skills is all I sought, and that I got from them, in spades!

 

[lamont]

oh yeah:

- if you look at how GUE does rounding for gas management it actually makes a lot of sense and, yes, it is always rounded conservatively (for good reason). if you are stuck on engineering level precision in doing problems, then you do need to set that aside. i come from a physics/math background so i know what you're talking about, and there's a few areas where some of the math in GUE courses drives me nuts, but not in basic fundies-level gas management. there is a logic to how it is done, and part of that logic is to always be conservative.

- there always seems to be a bad question on every scuba exam i've ever taken. PADI, NAUI, CPR, DAN, GUE, every single one of them had a bad question that either couldn't be answered or was so vaguely worded you had to guess randomly how the author wanted it answered. or the material just wasn't covered in the course. tip: if anyone is taking cave 1 or cave 2 soon, look up "goethite" in order to answer the question on the exam about that correctly, the colloqual way of describing goethite formations is that they are 'rusty nails' naturally formed in the cave. not covered in lecture in either course, present on both exams.

 

[Jax]

What contribution do you feel the change in configuration made to your floaty feet problem? What solutions (if any) have you looked at for it?

My sidemount tanks made the floaty feet no problem. As for solutions - Bob dropped my single out of the top band and way down my butt, but obviously that wouldn't work for valve drills. It is something to be worked with.

Double vision?

:snicker:

I'm a bit surprised by your final analysis. Given your military background I would have figured it would be a given that you'd appreciate solid planning, preparation and performance during the training phases in a team environment to make the execution in real world conditions seamless. A lot of people equate GUE to a militaristic organization, but I've never seen it to be that extreme. You seem to feel that it's more extreme.

This is the part that is difficult to portray. Let me try some other analogies.

At one time, I would have been very upset to not hit the 300m center target 50 of 51 times (qualify as 'expert'). Now, I'm happy to hear the plink of the metal plate at 150m.

When I used to show horses, I expected at least two blues out of six events with each horse. I trained extensively for this. Now, I'm okay with just riding.

Golfing became no fun because my golfing buddy would be so stressed because (insert issue of the day here). I'm okay with a 30 handicap.

I know I will become a more skilled diver and can meet the GUE high standards, because I have at one time or another, but not consistently enough to meet those standards now. I believe that can be done in a less pressured, more learning environment that will hold me to the same strict standards.

Yes, if I was exploring an underwater environment for the first time, I would want that level of exact programming and planning. I certainly understand why Fundies is what it is. It's just not for me.

 

[ringmod65]

In August 2009 I personally contacted JJ to voice my surprise regarding the unacceptable quality of the GUE-F training materials, and to volunteer my corrected copies. He refused my offer of corrected documents, and said new materials were in the works. I had additionally requested a pdf of the actual Power Point presentation (we were given the P/P "notes" printout which was completely illegible). JJ told me that he didn't want to do that, but would instead send me a copy of the new materials when they became available. I'm still waiting.

This is sloppy, avoidable, easily fixed, and - frankly - embarrassing. Inexcusable, really, for a leading training agency. IMO Jesper's "Beginning With The End In Mind" is a good candidate for a replacement text, as it touches on nearly everthing covered in Fundamentals.

Best.

 

[HenrikBP]

Thanks for a great write-up Jax. Lots of stuff to think about for sure.

A couple of comments, as one of the "Hooded Ones" (please note ingenious Cult reference ) at least partially involved in a couple of "intense" debriefs:

- I debated back and forth about wearing my hood, but 1) once in the water I was really quite comfortable. and 2) I was just too lazy to bother with adjusting my mask strap ... no really 3) I have Tech 1 aspirations, and figured I'd "practice as I'll play". I'll most likely need a hood for that class, so the more comfortable I get wearing it, the better. Those are my reasons. Other's may differ.

- while there certainly was some tension after the first couple of dives, getting those basics hashed out made for much more relaxed dives afterwards. I'm not big on confrontation in general, but I think the debriefs help cement the team and decrease stress in later dives, thus increasing fun. During one debrief in particular it became clear to me what I could have done to try to prevent the things that went sideways later.

- post-dive debriefs are as much about boosting a disappointed team mate.

- GUE EDGE pre dive; While it can seem a bit of a pain, I like getting those basic concerns out of the way. That way once you all splash, there's less of a risk of those "OH ****" moments, especially when you're hot-dropping in current

- As rigid as it may have seemed I had some absolutely fantastic dives with great team fun, communication and collaboration below (as well as above) water. I even went through a short swim-through and a bit into a (very open) wreck. Something I would never do with dive buddies I didn't trust as much as I do these guys.

I hope you - if not now, then later - got a lot of *good* out of the class, and that you don't/won't feel it was a complete waste.

Henrik

Edit. I completely agree with Jax and Ringmod about the class material, and contacted JJ about them at the same time Ringmod did (we were in the same Fundies class). Jesper's book is a good 1st go, but has it's own oddities that could use some editing. As could the quality and format it is delivered in.

 

[Blackwood]

Another incident was clipping off my primary. Dive-aholic put me through at least a hundred drills clipping off my primary, and I practiced extensively both before and after Dive-aholic's sidemount class . . . but it took me a couple of dozen (not exaggerating) tries to clip off in the lake . . . just couldn't get the $%^&*ing thing to clip. Yet I had done so successfully through the rest of the week. FWIW . . . .

Two words: Slow Down. It probably didn't feel like you were rushing, but I bet you were.

 

[hitch]

Interesting and insightful take on fundies. It can be a very intense class. Though in my opinion a positive class experience has always followed a positive effort. My experience with fundies was stressful at times especially with the math. It can be frustrating, but rest assure the pieces will come together in time. Take care in not allowing the challange to supercede the value of the material. It has taken me months and much more of practice to figure it all out. In time I was able to understand the GUE course material and follow the organization of it. Without my complete understanding of the information I was unable to piece it together. I had come into fundies with not a lot of experience and gained a HUGE wealth of understanding, confidence, and comfort in both my diving and dive buddies. Without my GUE education I would not be where I am today. To that I owe Bob Sherwood! I envy your class experience to have had two wealthy minds, Bob and Errol, at your finger tips. It can be difficult to know what to ask in a class environment. Anxiety, stress, and fatigue can be a tough combination to battle. I to have rode horses competatively for many years. Keep in mind the horses can be just as unpredictable as a diving environment. A horse and rider team has its good and bad days as do dive teams. I have learned from all of these experiences, the good and the difficult. Without my GUE training I would not have gained the tools to work through the bumps of the waves. GUE EDGE and dive debief I find to be an excellent tool in achieving knowledge pre and post dive. I have gained confidence in my abilities and with that can handle many more situations clearly in the water. I do not consider my gear to be a uniform for I see it as a means of safety and quite frankly warmth. As with riding, diving comes with choices and some unfortunately are on the fly. In my experiences with GUE training I keep a very open mind as some of it can be difficult. With that I have always been able to come out of my experiences in and out of class a better diver, buddy, and person in my opinion. Life is full of challanges I try not to let them become walls, but instead bumps along the way.